GT Program Is Dividing Our School!

It's too bad that you are seeing this, I never did when my 20 year old daughter was younger. I had just the opposite exclusion when I was in the Gifted program back in the 70s (MGM = mentally gifted minors or "mother's greatest mistake"). There were only about fifteen of us or so in the program and we were made fun of mercilessly. No worries, I'm still as resilient as hell.

The school needs to offer several other programs for all students to excel. I am a Dance Teacher. I audition dancers and those who do not make the first cut are reauditioned after my initial girls drop interest, have poor attendance, etc.
The school needs to have a sports program, an Arts Club, etc.

To get in, they have to be really, really smart. It's a quite insane criteria, at least where we are. So I too would look up to these kids and think, wow. Even my child who is well above grade level would not get in. I really respect their abilities. Testing well is HUGE gift in life, for college, etc.

I imagine those in a group would stick together. That just makes sense, I guess.

Kids go to different groups for lots of things in school. As a kid we were well aware of who the "dumb" group was in reading, and where the "smart" math kids were going for special math. Any time there is a distinction (even something like getting help in speech), kids realize this. It's harsh but it happens, every day.

hmm honestly it seems like the one with the problem is you and a bunch of other jealous moms. Teach your kids not to care about jerks.
Did you see the test scores or were you in the room when a mom was badgering the principal to get in? Because if not it is just gossip and that is mean and petty and adults should do better.

Are you sure that the problem is the GT kids and not the parents and kids that feel like some kids are "only in the program because the parents badgered." Their test scores and grades weren't good enough.
You are feeling annoyed and completely wronged....by elementary kids.
Mama...it sounds like you're the one with the problem, not the kids.
L.

Kids naturally divide into that - my daughter was in a special GT class for two years and the other kids considered them snobs (all but my daughter, as several kids stood up for her during a big discussion in the non-GT class). Truth be told, a lot of her classmates ARE snobs - they know they're there because they are smart and tell the other kids so - I've heard it. My daughter is horrified by it. But the teachers also unwittingly set that up. Sometimes they come right out and say things like " you guys should behave better - you're the smartest kids in the school and you should know better" (as my class used to be told), or the non GT classes get told they should strive to be as good as the GT class (setting up that they are in some way better). We had a boy last spring get the highest math score in the school on the state math test and he was not in the GT class and he was congratulated by the teacher pointing out it was even better than the GT class. His mom was really mad - even though it was a wonderful achievement, it was pointed out again that it was especially great because it was unexpected, being that he's not in the special GT class, again setting up the distinction. This year, there is no GT class in middle school, but they are shifting kids based on scores. My 6th grade daughter tested in reading above a 12th grade level, so they shifted her and she was horrified when one of her new classmates ("Beatrice") told a mutual good friend ("Sally") that Sally wasn't shifted to be with my daughter and Beatrice because Sally's test scores just weren't good enough. The kids are setting up these distinctions, despite and because of the adults' intentions.

ETA: In our school, GT designations are based on state wide and national tests. There is no possible way to badger the teachers for inclusion.

In elementary school, the gifted kids were pulled out of class for special instruction about 2 hours per week. Starting in middle school the kids are grouped by ability. In HS anyone can get into the honors and AP classes since it is based on grades.
I have never heard or witnessed anything like you describe in our district. Although on back to school night the teacher's will typically mention what a great class of high achievers they have and the kids do seem to be very competitive with each other but I do not see that as a bad thing.

Teach your kids how to deal with others that feel they are superior. This is not something that is simply found on the playgrounds of schools around our country. I see adults often that feel superior and act superior simply because of the job they have, car they drive, size of the rock on their hand or how many followers they have on their blog.

Teach your kids how to deal with this annoying personality type..because some never grow up and out of it. Teach your kids to be confident about the skills,talents and gifts they have.

I see absolutely NO reason why you should bring this to the principal's attention. Get involved at school. Find ways to bring the kids together to find commonality. Just because a kid is deemed "smart" on paper does not mean they are on the fast track to success. Kids that can adapt quickly in different environments, work well with others and are self motivators do better in life. Hone in on those traits M.. Those are things that all too often are not taught in the classroom...or in the GT program.

Good luck and best wishes!!

At our daughters elementary school, it seemed like such a huge portion of the student body was GT, that they decided every Teacher should be trained to teach in the GT style.

So if a new teacher comes to campus, we paid for that teacher to be sent to training.

And every class is taught in the gt style. No need to pull anyone out, or to exclude anyone. All of the campus is in GT all day long. Our school scores are always in the 97% or higher in over all scores for state and National tests, even before all of this "No child left behind" Testing.. .

Once these kids are in Middle and high school they are taking Advanced and Accelerated and Honors classes.

Not sure if your campus would consider this. It is amazing to see all sorts of students reach the highest bar that has been set, from Kinder on up..

Our school has a gifted and talented program (I dislike the name!) and our son is in it. But it's handled differently. They kids who go to GATE do so at a time when the other kids are going to something else so they all leave at the same time. No one makes a big deal out of it. My son is in GATE and his best friends are not in GATE....he would never say anything rude to them. I have told him that everyone has things their brain is really good at...and for him it happens to be reading/math...but then he needs to work at other things that he is not so good at. Another kid might not be in GATE but they may have an amazingly talented brain with art or acting or dealing with people and making friends or music or sports or something else that he cannot see. I don't see the kids segregating themselves at all...so it must be the culture at your child's school. That's sad. Each parent needs to have a sit down talk with their child about not doing this...but there is no way to make this kind of thing happen. Sorry your school is like that.

I'm really surprised people don't think you should talk to the principal about this. Maybe our school is a little more open than others. I would totally send the principal an email to make sure he/she is aware of this trend. It wouldn't be a "demand for action" or a "how are you going to fix this" message, but simply a "Are you aware this is going on?" I realize there will always be people who think they are better than others, but I think it is the responsibility of adults to speak up and try to teach these children that it is not right to do this. And a simple talk from the principal or the GT teacher might be enough to open their eyes to what they are doing.

Everyone wants to be special, and GT programs certainly are something that can set people apart. But kids need to be taught how to accept the praise humbly. And while it is certainly something that should be taught at home, I'm all for grabbing teaching moments when they arise, which the school has a chance to do.

Remember that GT is a "difference in ability". Similar as a concept to a "disability".

The same way that children have hard time understanding/coping with disability...they may have a hard time with GT. I mean, children who ARE GT may have a hard time with it.

My advice is that if your kids are being teased by GT kids, they should react the same way they would react if they were being teased by a child in a wheelchair. Remember that the child doing the teasing has a lot to cope with - which does NOT excuse the teasing, but, maybe your kids can try to focus on feeling sympathy for people with different abilities. And if the teasing becomes constant, they should definitely tell a teacher.

Maybe a few GT kids -- if you're referring to younger kids who are newer to the program--are feeling set apart and different and defensive. So they try to prop themselves up by telling other kids, "Yeah, I'm different, what's it to you?" and so on. Not good, and it should be nipped, but can you see how it might come from insecurity and not from plain snobbery to which you're attributing it? I would wager that older kids who have been in GT several years aren't going to bother to say such silly things because they're more comfortable with being in the program--and they probably have friends across all classes.

The teachers and administration should call out any kid who mocks another kid for not being in GT -- or any general ed student who makes fun of a kid for being in GT, for that matter. But it does not help if parents buy into the idea that there is some single, universal attitude among "these kids" as if every single GT student said and thinks these same things, all the time.

How to deal with the attitude you feel you see? Get involved and be constructive, active and positive, about your school as a whole. When you're volunteering, don't tolerate gossip about who badgered the administration to let their kids in; that boat has already sailed and school's in session, so it's not relevant now to anyone but the families involved. Don't engage in discussions about those awful GT kids, or how the program is divisive. It isn't going to go away so why spend the energy on discussing it over and over? Instead, be the parent who organizes events that bring everyone together. There surely are all-school events that do not separate GT from general ed; why not work with those, and come up with ideas for more of them?

Are your GT and general ed kids in the same "specials" together? If not--they should be. In most AAP (advanced academic program, the name for GT in our area) schools, the AAP students are in orchestra, band, gym, chorus and other specials and extracurriculars with each other. In our school, kids mixed a lot in specials and on the playground, and by sixth grade, the entire class, both general ed and AAP, were doing major things as a single group including a sixth grade play that took from Sept. to Feb., and a huge camping trip that mixed the entire class in every aspect of four days' activities. Many kids in both AAP and general ed got to know each other well and made friendships outside their classes. So....if the school, the teachers and the parent volunteers work at it, there can be plenty of cameraderie. Sure, there will be some individual kids and parents with a superior attitude, but it doesn't take GT for that to happen. There does not have to be an us-versus-them mentality unless people, especially parents, let it happen through negative gossip, rather than acting constructively on behalf of ALL the kids.

Is this program a new one, or very recently established? I wonder if the administration is so focused on its new GT program, if that's the case, that it's not aware of resentments from general ed students' parents and is not thinking about building relationships across all classes. That is where parents can step in and help, but only if the parents themselves are out to build up the school as a whole.

I used to be a gifted and talented teacher (in a pull-out type program). For the most part the kids were great, but every year I seemed to have one student who would belittle kids who weren't in GT classes, have a better-than-you attitude, and seem to have a sense of entitlement.

But, to be honest the worst part of the job was some of the parents. Some of them also had a sense of entitlement, thought their kids could do no wrong and if they did it was someone else's fault. I dealt with parents who thought it was a death sentence if their kid didn't qualify for GT services (and in our district there are no free passes into the GT program if you don't meet the criteria). I saw parents push their kids to extreme limits trying to get them to qualify. I saw parents demean their kids because they didn't get into GT like their older siblings had. I even heard parents complain that there was too much diversity in the GT program. There is a huge misunderstanding about what is a truly gifted student and what is an above average student or high flyer.

I'm definitely not saying that all GT parents are like that, but there were enough of them that it sucked some of the joy out of teaching GT. I also had amazing GT parents who were just glad their kids were getting the opportunity to have some enhancements available to them. Having a kid in GT seems to be a status symbol in some circles. And honestly, I saw lots of miserable kids because of the perceived social status of having a GT student.

I never found a way to "solve" the problem. You could mention it to the principal. Just don't go in saying the GT kids are the problem. I would approach it by saying you have noticed some comments being made about kids not being as smart as other kids and kids excluding kids. Just say that you have a concern about it because you don't want to see anyone being hurt. Use very general terms unless he asks for specifics.

The attitude needs to go, but as to associating with each other - it's a by product of being separated out (though they shouldn't be purposefully ostracizing). I was in gifted throughout school and you're grouped with the same kids, doing the same school work, spending more time in a closer atmosphere, etc. By middle and high school, I only had classes (with the exception of gym/lunch/specials) with the gifted kids. You form bonds. Plus, true giftedness isn't just being smart or testing well - their brains are wired differently. It makes sense that they'd be closer to others who have obscure thinking/understanding patterns, too.

Without being there, I tend to think it's just human nature. Any age, any group of people - will do this. You can make the principal aware of the situation. I would focus on your kids and if it's bothering him/her/them, and helping them deal with it. No it's not "fair", but as my Dad always told me, Life isn't fair... best you learn to cope with it.

I was in GT and my sks were also at various points in advanced programs or AP classes. I hung out with the GT kids sometimes because nerds stick together but I never had a better than attitude about my friends! And my sks tutored some of their friends through classes and saw it as keeping them in the same grade and activities vs lording it over them.

If it applies to your kid, encourage the child to speak up if a kid is being picked on and encourage other kids to behave better. There are many kinds of intelligence and one kid might be good at chemistry but really street dumb. Or I was good at English but heaven help me in math.

Perhaps what needs to happen is that the rest of the school decides to hang out with (or not) the kids who have bad attitudes, no matter what course level they are in. If someone treated me like I was terrible for not being in Pre-Cal in 8th grade, then they wouldn't be my friend. I had plenty of other friends (some of whom tutored me in Algebra because I struggled).

You say some of the parents bullied the school...my guess is if you look down the line, you'll see the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Is it bothering your child?

That's really sad that this division is happening. Perhaps the school administration should be notified IF this is a widespread issue. If its only a few of the kids who ate doing this, even though its not right, kids will be kids and its going to happen to some extent. Yes, it is annoying and wrong. But, what is also wrong is you discounting or looking down on the program because some kids got in without "making the cut". Our school has a gifted/blended program. There are slots for kids who may not test gifted, but other factors show that they have high intelligence and need to be challenged more. Standardized tests and school grades don't always show a true reflection of someone's intelligence. Just ask any parent with an exceptionally bright kid who also has ADHD!

You ignore it, what else can you do? Why would any kid want to hang out with them, why would they give their delusional attitude a second glance.

You react, the parents of these kids chalk it up to your jealousy, nothing changes except you are more annoyed. Don't give them what they need, ignore them.

This is one of my main "beefs" with traditional school . . . it's not about what YOU are learning as an individual - it's about what other people are doing, learning, testing, wearing, driving, etc. Consumerism, class-ism, elite-ism (sp?) comes from somewhere. Public school, on the surface, was supposed to eliminate some of this but it's actually made it worse in certain respects.

If you live in D.C. it's something your kids better get used to.

I don't think there's much you can do it about within the traditional school construct. If you call attention to it it could get worse.

JMO.

Our GT teacher will not allow her students to brag or behave in an unbecoming manner towards others because they are in her program.

And if you don't make the scores on the tests then you don't get in.

But I agree with others if it isn't bothering your child then leave it alone...

I think most schools have a GAT program of some sort.
There's a BIG difference between needing challenge and being gifted.
There's usually issue when a kid no longer "fits" gifted.
Then what?
I know a fair few parents who will not allow their kids to be in any way associated with the labels that come from G&T in ANY way.
Labels are labels.
Often G&T kids are the "nerds" "geeks" etc.
Focus on the real issue: nasty kids who are mean.

Updated

I think most schools have a GAT program of some sort.
There's a BIG difference between needing challenge and being gifted.
There's usually issue when a kid no longer "fits" gifted.
Then what?
I know a fair few parents who will not allow their kids to be in any way associated with the labels that come from G&T in ANY way.
Labels are labels.
Often G&T kids are the "nerds" "geeks" etc.
Focus on the real issue: nasty kids who are mean.

When I was a kid I missed the gifted program by two percentage points. Thank God. By the time we were in HS those kids were labaled as weirdos. I know some of them now and they are happy, successful people but I think that program set them up socially in a way that was damaging. Socially, school was rough.

Right or wrong, labels stick with you and frankly even if my kids were gifted I'd think long and hard about putting them in the program you describe. Never heard of a kid getting in without the scores either.

Your post does sound a bit jealous and frankly it seems you could solve this problem by focusing on individual behaviors and not gifted vs. others. Life is full of challenges and unkind people. Prepare the child for the path not the path for the child.

Kids usually play with the kids in their class, so it's not surprising that they only associate with each other. As for the attitude, they get it from their parents. You said yourself that parents have badgered the school into letting their child into the program even though the child did not qualify. These kids hear their parents talking about the GT program, and they just adopt their parents attitude.

Just what is it you would say to the principal?