May 04, 2010,
M.E. asks from Coeur d Alene, ID on May 03, 2010
Goats Milk, Carrot Juice and Water. Are These Bowel Movement Normal?
I flew w/ my 2 1/2 month old son to Tx, when we got home he developed a cough. He is 5 months now and still has this cough. The pediatrician has put him on Albuterol nebulizer and Singulair. The next step is Pulmicort nebulizer. I DO NOT want to go to this route with steroids! So I called a Naturalpathic Dr. She told me to take him off formula completely and give him 1/2 goat's milk and 1/2 carrot juice. So I started him 2 days ago with 1/3 water, 1/3 carrot juice (organic from the store) and 1/3 goat's milk (ultra pasturized. I cant find raw goat's milk in the stores.) I also have powdered goats milk. He had one small hard bowel movement last night and then this next morning had a big thick creamy movement. He hasnt gone since this morning. Is this movement normal? What can I give him to have more regular movements? Is it ok to be giving him Ultra Pasturized Goats Milk? Is there enough neutrients in this formula?
R.H. answers from Colorado Springs on May 03, 2010
I am *very* *very* into natural remedies and natural treatments for illnesses and diseases. We have a family naturopath and we're in there all the time. So, this is coming from someone who absolutely believes in the natural mindset and I absolutely can understand why you don't want to do hard-core steriods.
Do *not*, and I repeat, do *not* be feeding your son this formula. Your naturopath is giving you dangerous, unhealthy advice for your child. It's not the first time I have seen it either.
Goats milk is much higher in salt and in a young infant it is tremendously taxing on their kidneys. Yes, goat's milk is more similar to breastmilk and is more digestible than cow's milk and far better tolerated. *But* that is a comparison between straight cow's milk and straight goat's milk. Cow's milk based formula is far easier on the digestive system of a young baby than goat's milk is.
Secondly, there is not *nearly* enough calories in that mixture to ensure proper growth. She is probably suggesting you dilute it to help with the fact that goats milk is hard on the kidneys, but water gives you ZERO calories and NO nutrition, and carrot juice is only about 5-10 calories per ounce versus formula at 20 calories per ounce and breastmilk anywhere between 18-25 calories per ounce. Carrots are a great source of natural sugar but zero fat. For a five month old to have to rely on that as a main source of calories for brain development and growth is disastrous.
If you are absolutely certain you want your son off of cow's milk and commercially based formulas, you can make your own formula at home (I've always breastfed so I can't personally vouch for any of them, but I've known people to use these http://www.westonaprice.org/Recipes-for-Homemade-Baby-For...) but please, PLEASE PLEASE ditch this recipe you are using. You will starve your baby of calories and of very essential, needed nutrients. If he were nine months old, you could swing something like this, but not five months. And find a better naturopath, because this one doesn't know what she is doing.
To comment on the above post--- I didn't say she would starve on goat's milk, I said she would starve on this preparation. This "formula" is only 1/3 goats milk and 2/3s water and carrot juice. That's less than 1/2 the calories your children got on straight goat's milk.
And as for the rest, yes, we'll have to disagree. :) I am not against goat's milk. We use goat's milk in our home all the time and the link above lists a goat's milk formula. Goat's milk is far more easily digestible by humans over all than cow's milk. But using only ultra-pasturized goat's milk is missing a lot of nutrients that are important for optimal development. Throughout history when people have been unable to breastfeed they've used all kinds of preparations and babies have lived :) People used to use straight cow's milk as well, with babies as young as newborns and those babies grew into adults. Goat's milk is more similar in composition to human breastmilk....but goat's milk is *NOT* breastmilk. It has a much higher concentration in salt, it is much lower in b-vitamins. That's fine on a daily basis when it's not the sole basis of nutrition, but it is missing several nutrients that are found in human milk and ultrapasteurized goat's milk is a dead product that is missing all the live components of human milk. Goat milk is designed by nature to grow goats, cow's milk to grow cows, and human milk to grow humans. If one can't breastfeed or chooses not (and there is NO judgment from me!!) then any other mammalian milk is going to be nutritionally deficient if it is the 100% sole source of food. Doesn't mean babies haven't or can't grow up fine on it, but it *is* missing key nutrients, which is why *I* personally would make a formula preparation to ensure optimal nutritional completeness.
Regardless, if she wants to use straight goat's milk--- her child will at least get their caloric needs met. There is no way for this baby to drink enough on this preparation to meet her daily caloric needs. Assuming a carrot juice on the richest side of 10 cal/ounce, goat's milk at 18 cal/ounce, an 8 ounce bottle would only give give 10.5 calories per ounce versus the 18-23 cal/per ounce of breastmilk and 20 cal/per ounce of formula. That is just more than HALF the calories, so he would either have to drink twice as much or lose vital calories. 32 ounces of this "formula" in a day is providing less than 350 calories. No baby can grow on that few calories in a day. The naturopath who suggested this is being reckless. She needs to at the very least make sure he is going to get enough CALORIES to grow.
6 moms found this helpful
S.G. answers from Philadelphia on May 04, 2010
Probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I am a huge advocate for goat's milk. I all but 100% raised my 2 girls on goat's milk. My 1st daughter was taking goat's milk since about 6 wks when my breastmilk dried up. My 2nd daughter was taking goat's milk since about 3 months, when my breastmilk dried up. The goat's milk was in place of formula. My father-in-law is a biomedical nutritionist and turned me on to goat's milk. Very similiar in composition to breastmilk. I've commented on a couple other mom's postings regarding goat's milk, if you feel you want to know more.
I would suggest doing the goat's milk straight (or making the milk with the powder with just water, as directed). I don't quite understand your doc's recommendation of using the carrot juice. To me, it sounds like that almost act like a laxative on such a tiny little digestive system. I think after a couple days of sticking with one program, his BMs will become more regular and consistent.
And for the record, my daughter didn't starve on goat's milk. In fact, she was quite plump. =) So much so, the doc considered putting her on a "diet".
Feel free to message me if you want to talk more. Good luck.
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J.C. answers from Anchorage on May 04, 2010
When treated properly I have heard goats milk can be good for young children, but there is a high bacteria risk if you buy it off a farm or the like. I am all for natural remedies for things, I practice herbal healing myself, but I never ignore the advice of my doctor. I would discuss this new treatment with your doctor to see if he has any advice, and so he can help monitor progress to be sure your son does not end up with damage to his lungs if things do not go as planned. He may also need further supplements to make up for any nutritional voids in the goats milk versus breast or formula.
S.J. answers from Portland on May 04, 2010
I raised my twins on the goat milk and in the beginning it can cause constipation for a couple of days and then the body adjusts and it gets easier. while they are in the in between stages you can give them gripe water. This is a mix of fennel, dill, and water, and a couple other natural ingredients that help loosen the bowels.
I raised my twins on goats milk when i lost my milk supply after a surgery. They have exceeded all of their milestones and are happy healthy two year olds. i personally prefer goats milk to formula.
i would do a web search and see if you can find a local goat herder so you can try to get raw unpastureized goats milk. Another goat milk recipe you can try is fromt he WEston A Price Foundation. here is their website: http://www.westonaprice.org/Recipes-for-Homemade-Baby-For... and another from Dr. Sears: http://askdrsears.com/html/3/t032400.asp
C.T. answers from Denver on May 04, 2010
Hi M. - I dont know anything about goat's milk. I dont like the taste. The pulmicort nebulizer, while being a steroid, is a topical steroid. It is not systemic. It's like putting cortisone on a skin rash.
I would STRONGLY urge that you discuss this new treatment with your doctor to make sure he is on board with it. I would hate for your son to develop asthma or something worse - trust me it's no fun and when uncontrolled, can be life-threatening
S.M. answers from Spokane on May 04, 2010
Hi - I just want to mention that my daughter was diagnosed with Asthma related issues when she was 11 months old, so we always had to give her albuterol when she had a cold - it was getting so bad that the doctor did prescribe Pulmicort when she was 2. I was really upset, not wanting to give my two year old a steriod everyday -but we did it, everyday for a year. She made it through the next few colds with no problem at all, so we took her off the Pulmicort and she has been totally fine ever since. She is seven now and gets through colds without even albuterol (and has for years). Now whether or not she merely outgrew the asthma or the Pulmicort actually did what it was supposed to, I don't know. But we have friends who didn't use the pulmicort and their children still suffer with the asthma. I would never jump right on board for any drugs/medications for kids, but this may give you something to think about. I kind of feel the Pulmicort gave my daughter that extra edge in getting over the asthma stuff. Good luck. I also never gave my kids goat milk, but you read so much good stuff about it. I'm sure it is as good or better than regular formula or cows milk!
A.F. answers from St. Cloud on May 04, 2010
I absolutely agree with the poster who said to ditch your recipe and follow the Weston Price formula preparation.
Carrot juice is extremely high in sugar also and should be used sparingly in preparation.
R.C. answers from Portland on May 04, 2010
I agree with Rene. Run anything you are doing by your pediatrician. They are going to know the scientific evaluation of any diet, or will find it for you. If you don't like what your pediatrician tells you, then you can get a second opinion.
I'm also very supportive of alternative treatments, but a doctor will know if things have actually been to be harmful.
Goat's milk does not have all the B vitamins that an infant needs, I know that. Perhaps if one has their own goats and gets the milk quickly and cleanly from the goat to the infant, after the baby is 1 year old I'd think it would be fine raw, but the chance of getting bacteria that is harmful to the infant is more than I'd want to risk in my baby. There are safer, less risky alternatives.
There is a point where western medicine and formula are better for the baby than the illness or alternative treatment.
If you take your baby to a good acupuncturist, they can do tui-na, which is just acupressure, for babies. It's supposed to be very effective for stimulating immune responses in babies, and there's no potential side effects.