Gifted Program (Very Edited)

Is being appropriately placed an "accomplishment", or just "as it should be"?

Personally (having been in GT &/or AP programs all my life), and having a 2e kiddo (gifted + adhd)... I don't think getting into a gifted program is any more of an accomplishment than getting into a remedial program. It's an appropriate placement.

Working hard on a project, practicing hard on a _______ (song, sport, language), doing "well" a difficult test (whether well for that individual is an A or a C)... things that people/kids have to work for and invest a lot in; those are accomplishments. IMHO, it's a lot like courage. In order to be brave, one has to FIRST be afraid. It's not brave to do something fun or something that's a nonissue. Overcoming fear, or doing the right thing even though you're still afraid... THAT'S courage. An accomplishment means, imho, something that a person has aspired to, worked for, and achieved. Not just showed up for and naturally sorted into the right group for their abilities.

Now, don't get me wrong... not being stuck in an INappropriate placement is a victory/relief. But "Yay! You're not stuck where you don't belong!" seems like an odd sort of celebration to have unless you've been struggling against an inappropriate placement.

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LOL - Your question reminded me of a Brady Bunch episode- don't know if you're old enough to have grown up watching it, but there was an episode where Marcia got trophies, awards, good grades really easily, and Jan felt like she couldn't compete. So the happy ending was that Jan discovered that she was a talented painter. So, I guess my answer to your question is in there somewhere :D

Good luck!!! =o)

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totally agree with Riley - it's not something that she achieved - like thru hardwork and determination or anything. Both my kids are in "academically talented" programs and we are excited because they have a great opportunity to explore learning that way, but they are only "praised" for doing good work, not just being there. I would wait until the end of summer to explain to her about her upcoming opportunities.

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Tell her what class she is in and be done with it. You will create big problems always bringing it up. Each child is an individual and should be
treated as such. It sounds like you are always telling this child how wonder-
ful she is if your older daughter always thinks you are rubbing it in. I really
do not understand, because they are in the same school, how the gifted
class will come up. Sorry but it sounds like you are putting way too much
emphasis on this issue. Why don't you just let them be kids and enjoy the
things normal kids do.

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I think you should tell her you are glad she made it into the program. Just because one sibling got in and the other didn't doesn't mean you can't praise the one who got in. Maybe this will be a good lesson for the other sibling. Like everyone is good at different things but no one is good at everything... or something like that. So that she doesn't feel jealous or bad about herself because I know you know that both of them are awesome. I don't think you should downplay it because the other sibling might get upset. My brother was upset because my family was excited about me going in the Marines and now he does custom cars and there's no way I could do the artistic things he does and my dad is gaga about him being into cars.
I agree with you, academics isn't everything but realistically the more one-on-one attention a child can get means they will be getting more quality education which (let's face it) is not always common
You should handle it the same way you would handle it if one sister was awesome at soccer and made the team and the other was not and was upset about it. It is touchy which is why I mentioned saying It's ok to be upset, just know we are proud of you too. You are great at blah blah. Everyone is great at some things, but not all things.
I agree with another mom to stress you love both of them unconditionally (and life isn't always a competition).

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Being in a Gifted Program... does not make one child better than the other.
No matter what.
This has to be, taught.
It is categorizing a child. Not about 'who' they are as a person.

The big sister is already very bright, as you said.
Being 'bright' is about many things.
Not just academics or performance.

Each child is an individual. And everyone is different from the other. It is good.
Every child, has their OWN talents and interests.
And they are their own, person.
That is GOOD.
They need to learn that and be taught that.
And that- no child is perfect.

This is a very good article:
http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/

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couple thoughts:

I think that you should have your third grader tested. From my experience schools do not want to test for GATE b/c of the expense and the hassle that it is for them. In my school they are supposed to by law advertise testing but they never do. And teachers almost never suggest it so parents think that their kids would not be right for it. I have heard from several parents who have said that the teacher never said anything so they did not push it. When in fact the teachers aren't going to say anything except in very obvious cases. Being social has nothing to do with intelligence so I really think that you should take that out of the equation all together.

My son is in GATE and I am beginning to see that I have made a mistake by making a deal about it. The way I saw it was that if a kid was good at piano or baseball the parents would make a deal so I thought why not celebrate his intelligence. Rather than me explain what I am now seeing I am attaching an article that somebody on this board posted a little while back. After reading it I have really scaled back on the gifted talk. I definitely see what they discuss in the article happening with my son. Article:

http://nymag.com/news/features/27840/index1.html

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I would try to celebrate each child's gifts, whether they are the classically recognized ones or not. Perhaps your oldest is particularly empathetic, or great with her friends (high "EQ"). Perhaps she's particularly sensitive and good with living creatures (animals or pets?). I would just make sure to point those out too.

You are extraordinarily fortunate on all counts . . .

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Our daughter has always been extremely bright and talented.. We did not have her tested because every teacher in every classroom in her elementary school was trained and taught every student as gifted..

That school has like 98.5 % of the students not only pass the state tests, but completely blow it away. Once they graduate from High school again it is in the high 90% that end up attending college and graduating.

Anyway, we never told her we were "proud of her for being smart.". we told her we "liked how hard she worked on her school work". We "liked how she was always trying to do her best."

If she did not get a grade she was pleased with or , she was disappointed and we would ask her, "did you do your best?" If she said yes, we said ," then that is all you can do".. If she said no, We asked her "what can you do differently the next time?"

We also never pushed her to do better or to try harder, we told her to do her best and to ask for help if she needed it.. We did not do her work for her. We wanted her grades to be hers.

As she got older she was of course always in the advanced classes. We were proud of her again by saying, "Cool, We know you are going to work hard." But she would have found it strange for us to say, "wow, we are proud of you for being in advanced classes", because there was no doubt she was always on that track,

Not sure what your goal is by telling her that you are proud of her being smart. In a way it is saying we are proud of you for being pretty.. She was born that way. She did not have to work at it.

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I think you should read "how not to talk to your kids" It's a great article, I've known many very bright children who are afraid to try things that dont come easily to them. My thought is do not praise your gifted child for being gifted, praise both children for effort! when they work extra hard on something it doesnt matter if they succeed it doesnt matter if they are learning to ride a bike, tie shoes, or multiply/ Whoever worked the hardest should get the most praise because that's whats best for both kids. please read the article

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Yes, I think you can tell her that you're glad she'll be taking the classes that are best for her, without throwing around the word "gifted". You're also glad that your younger daughter will be taking the classes that are right for her.

It might be a bonus to your younger sister to have some sort of special classes from time to time...art, dance, etc...something special that she can celebrate.

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Didn't read the others: I DO NOT think it should be celebrated. What is it that you want to communicate to her? Every child has their gifts and this is the school's idea of gifted.

I'm adamant about this because my daughter is "gifted" by school standards but I want her to understand that she is SO much more and so are other children. Everyone is unique.

When my daughter works at something, that I praise.

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I didn't seem all your details and I actually do like details because it' helps me see the whole picture and not project my thoughts as much.

I am in your situation sort of, I think, It's my oldest that is in a "gifted program' and the youngest (28 mo younger and very competitive) probably won't be. I don't know how much of a big deal i would make about it, we don't really reward for A's on report cards or anything like that, but I don't think you need to hide it or cater too much to the one that didn't get it. I think i would have ONE big discussion with both of them separately and express your pride because I do think getting into the program means your child has worked hard and made good choices But I would also stsress to both of them, that you love them unconditionally and want them to be happy in what ever way makes them happy.
So bottom line, don't over think it. I think that is why you are getting so many people bringing other things into it.
Support them both the way each needs to be supported because life isn't even steven and nor should it be --fair is doing what is right for each. not doing the same for each.
congrats on being a great mom and having wonderful unique children.

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Well, you've gotta celebrate achievements, right?

I see your girls are 6 & 7? At those ages, todays "gifted" might be tomorrow's "average, typical" so I wouldn't place too much emphasis on it. Tell the other one she can still request "challenge" work at any time, too!

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well, i think that as a family you should celebrate it. if she is really wanting to get in it. i think that it might be a good life lesson for your other daughter that unfortunately we don't get the things we want or work for all the time. i know that she is disappointed and i would feel really bad for her, but it happens. maybe just point out other things that she does well. when my son gets upset that his sister can do something, i make a point to let him know the things that he does well. but i also make sure to tell both of my kids that sometimes things don't work out the way we want them to. oh, and i don't know about the gifted program where you are at, but where i live, it's not gifted work until you get into middle school/high school. it's just EXTRA work. not really worth it. my daughter was suggested for gifted and i turned it down. even my pedi said he turned it down for his kids, too.

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Just to keep it simple... I don't think the 1st grade daughter really has a concept of a "gifted program". I know you excited for her, as you should be, but I don't think you need to go any further. I would just continue to tell your children how proud you are of their accomplishments.

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I would not make a "big" deal about it. In fact, we didn't. We only have 2 kids, but our oldest was not recommended for testing, and I never pressed for it. With our youngest, I did press for it, though they would have gotten around to it with her eventually anyway-I just wanted her to be able to take advantage of the opportunities as soon as possible.

I would respond this way, to your specific question: Would you tell your daughter that you were excited for getting into a "special" program if the "special" was "special needs" instead of "gifted"? I say that, again, as the parent of 2 kids: one in the gifted program and one not. Yes, I am very excited that my daughter is receiving the services that will help her expand her knowledge and skills and challenge her in the most appropriate way. But, I do NOT praise her for doing abundantly well on academic matters just because she makes 100's. She needs to have been challenged and worked hard at something to garner praise from me. Believe me, your daughter KNOWS when she is receiving praise for something that she doesn't truly deserve it. Just being the best at something isn't necessarily worthy of praise, as difficult and confusing as that can sound. And I would be very cautious about WHAT you are giving her praise for. For my daughter, it is for thinking outside the box, doing generous things for others, her attitude being positive, working hard/doing her best at ANYthing(chores, playing, whatever, not necessarily academics). Rather than praising her for reading books that "should" be beyond her level, I ask her questions about the book itself and what she enjoyed or disliked about it.
Those sorts of interaction will be beneficial to her AND to your older daughter.
Find things to praise your older daughter for as well. When you know she struggles with something (talking in class?) then praise her when you notice that she has refrained from doing it as often as usual, or for some short finite period of time. For my son (who is the eldest of our two, and the one not recognized as "gifted") it wasn't that hard to find. It isn't academics, though he carries a B average usually. He is a very sensitive soul, who seems to innately know how to engage people and set people at ease in uncomfortable situations. He is a people person. He is gentle and helpful with younger kids. And he is very funny. So when I see him go out of his way to be nice to a stranger or whatever, I make sure to "notice". It helps him to recognize his "talents" that academic circles might not count as talent. But they are talents. He even became very engaged in his science class the 3rd 9 weeks of this past year (he was in 7th grade) and helped "tutor" some of the other kids struggling with the material he had down pat. His teacher told me about it. I wouldn't have known otherwise.

So, back to your question. I would NOT make a "big" deal. I would inform her (once you have the details of how being part of the "gifted program" will affect her daily activities with school) what will happen. (For our daughter/school... she goes to an entirely different school for an entire school day one day per week. And she is not required to make up missed assignments, though if they have a test-usually the teacher does tests on other days--she makes it up the next day or whatever). It is not something your daughter has "accomplished" and your older daughter did not "accomplish". It is just placement in the program that will help your daughter learn to the best of her potential.
Hope this helps!

**After your 2nd edit:
I would not tell her much, because you don't know much yet. My daughter is the type that needs details, otherwise it just causes anxiety for her. So, if she asks again, then tell her "Yes, you were accepted. They will provide us with more information about how that will impact your school day, but we won't get that information until school is about to start" Or something along those lines. OR, just tell her she won't know until open house, unless the NOT knowing is causing her more anxiety.
For now, letting her know that she will be in the program will probably be all you CAN tell her. How that translates into the routine of her school day is something that you will need to talk with her about when you have that information. And something that not knowing might cause anxiety for her.
So a head's up to watch for that....

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I think you do tell the one that got in, and I think that you also talk to the sister who didn't.

I would treat this just like anything else that is performance based, like tryouts for cheerleading or baseball or soccer, etc.

It's hard and disappointing. Do stress that it's more important to work hard than to be smart. (Read Nutureshock--it's ey-eopening)

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dont know where you live but here in chesapeake the gifted elementary program sticks the advanced kids in a class together and they go at a faster pace. that's about it. because everyone gets the infothey can move quickly and the class doesnt have to slow down for wellthe slower kids. my oldest is in it and my second seems on her way too. although my cousin who is a grade behind my oldest didnt get in because of her attitude (not grades) knows that my daughter is in it isnt upset. at least she doesnt show it. ithink your oldest just needs to be told and probably reminded that if she was in the gifted class she would feel so behind because once they finish a lesson she might still not understand it because they go so fast. and your youngest should understand it isn't niceto brag and maybe not bring it up unless necesary that she's in the program. i don't mean tolie tothe oldest just not toboast about it. i'm sure there are things older sister can do that the younger one can't! maybe find what that is and let her excell in that more. but yes you can't not tellyour child you are proud of them for anything just because you might hurt the other ones feelings. that's where we started getting the "everyone made the team" because we don't want to hurt anyones feelings deal. one day she won't get a job won't get the house or won't get the boy...she has tolearn one day what it feels like tonot make the cut. maybe it willhelpher to try harder or at least be able to cope with not geting something she wants. i know it's hard as we don't want tosee our kids "fail" at things but it is life. good luck!

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Society has gone too far in rewarding everyone and not ackowledging a specific achievement by a specific person. I think you tell the 1 child that she got in and that you are proud of her for doing so well. I wouldn't do this in front of the other child but I would make sure to tell the other child that not everyone can be in that program, that said, you are sure there are other avenues for her and you are happy to explore them with her. You can emphasize her attritbutes without downplaying Child 1's achievement. Point is - they both have their strengths and are wonderful!

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I can see from your edited version as well as your 'So What Happened' that you've been getting a lot of flack from this question so I'm not going to bother reading the other responses.

I, too, have 1 child in gifted programs & 1 who is not. I totally understand what you're saying about being torn about it. My son, who is older, is the one in the gifted programs. He is very smart, but also a classic first born in that he is super dedicated, pays attention to detail, and excels for the pure delight in doing well, though it does seem to just come naturally to him at this point (he'll be going into 7th grade next year). My daughter is 17 months younger than him, but they are 2 grades apart in school. She is still in elementary & he is in middle. She is a classic youngest child in that she's hilarious, an entertainer, very artistic, & a bit attention-seeking, but struggles in school though she is also very smart, just in a different way. She is more of a street-smart where her brother is more book-smart.

She feels like we're easier on her brother (which is totally not true, we almost never discipline him just because he doesn't need it, does his homework & chores without being asked/told/begged/threatened, doesn't talk back, etc.) she also has some self-esteem issues. This past year, 4th grade, she did make honor roll & we made a big deal about that for her because I know she worked extremely hard to get there.

Since elementary school DS has been in one gifted program or another. Once he started middle school last year they put him in an advanced placement English class which he enjoyed very much. He is automatically enrolled in that class again next year because he met all of the requirements, but chose to also take the test to try for the A/P math class. We got the letter 2 weeks ago letting us know that he'll be in that class next year as well. I didn't hesitate to tell him how proud we are of him, because I am.

I genuinely try to really praise each of my kid's strengths which is easy for me because they're so very different. Mike easily gets the grades, but also is in band & plays baseball. Hailey makes the grades only when she REALLY applies herself & even then it's a struggle, but she also is very artistic & takes dance classes. These are absolutes about each child, they're not going to change & I suspect the same is true with your kids. Your 3rd grader may be upset when she first hears the news, but they are different people & although she's young, she's capable of understanding that now. Playing up their strengths, and helping them with their more difficult areas is all any parent can do in my opinion.

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