Frienship Advice

LF,

Here's what you do - visit with her (at your town or hers)at night with no kids. Just you and her going out to dinner. Forget the playdates for a while - a long while. Just go out to dinner together once a month and have some wine and enjoy your girl time together without any kids! Casually tell your friend that you are getting selfish in your old age (or however you want to put it - try to be humorous or make it sound like it's not a big deal - avoid drama, though!) and you want her all to yourself. Tell her you want to catch up with her and that you have been craving more kid free time and adult conversation. This way, she doens't get hurt. Good luck!

If you can afford it try to have a moms night or weekend away somewhere so you can catch up without the stress of the children. You could find someplace halfway between your homes, put the dad's on kid duty for the night, and reconnect with your friend. maybe she'll ask your advice on her kids bad behavior and how to correct it! best of luck!

I disagree that loving your friend means loving her kids too. I have a few friends that I can simply not stand to be around their kids, especially the older they get. It has NOTHING to do with my love for them but the way they parent (or don't parent imo) and the way their children act is, like you said, just too stressful to be around and it's easier to just not spend much time with them. Like you, my child will start to act just like theirs after being around them. Imitation starts SUPER EARLY (as early as infants) so again I totally disagree with pp about your daughter not learning this behavior from her kids. It's a very tough situation and unless you feel you can be blunt, honest and super direct with her about this (and that she would actually be able to change her kids, which I doubt she would because otherwise they would already behave!), I would say your only alternative is to limit the time you do spend with her, or like others said to only have moms activities (which is nearly impossible if she has that many kiddos and you live that far away). Stay her friend via phone/email and hopefully once her kids get older they will be better....but I wouldn't count on that too much. I'm not sure what else to tell you because I feel in the same boat. Luckily I have made other friends who parent more like I do and it's MUCH easier to be around these friends and their kids on a regular basis. Try not to stress abotu it or feel guilty because you have every right to feel the way you do imo and many of us feel the same way. That doesn't make it easier but like a pp mentioned, you need to do what's best for your daughter as well and not having her around such behavior is an appropriate thing to do. I don't want my child to witness the types of behaviors some of my friend's kids display either.

My absolute best friend, since childhood, lives out of state. She is a divorced parent and fulltime student, with NO family or support system so I try so hard to like her 7 year old son, but I just can't stand the kid most of the time. And that is crappy, because he hasn't had the parenting needed...so it's not really his fault. For many reasons, sometimes wonderful people aren't necessarily gifted at child raising.
But STILL....he was at my house for a week and in that short amount of time, my son started imitating him in wanting to snack all day and not eat real meals, kicking rocks, leaving his mess EVERYWHERE, and the most irritating of all: the cocky shrug. ACK! It took a couple weeks to get it all back to normal. I do try to make arrangements ahead of time for my husband to watch our son, and for a sitter we know to watch hers, so we can go to our favorite Greek restaurant or get some daquiris and TALK without interruption. (I thought once if I could just survive until 8pm he'd go to bed, but he doesn't have a bedtime!!!) Now we just do childless nights, and it's rare to see each other, so it's ok to do that. We talk on the phone daily though, leave short little emails, we know we care about each other but the truth is that time, distance, and the rigors of motherhood DO shorten our time with friends. It is what it is.
One thing I HAVE done that I've seen success: I went to a class at the library on "positive discipline" and told my friend ALLLL about it and how excited I am to practice different little scenarios with my son, and how they work. I've heard her on the phone doing the same things I've told her....sometimes, parents just need some help that would NOT put them on the defensive or hurt them. Another thing we do when she does come to visit (which helps SOME, sometimes) is this: my husband takes him aside and says "we are so happy to see you again, and you know our little guy thinks you are SO cool...he will copy everything you do, so remember that you want to be a good example with him around so he doesn't get hurt or in trouble". We lay out very specific rules, supernanny style, and give our daily "menu schedule" of what times meals and snacks are, and what he can expect. Then if he starts bugging us about wanting candy (or doesn't want to eat his meal) we'll just remind him about when he's able to eat again (or that he won't be eating again for this long...). We also do try to go to parks or walk the blocks, the best we've found is in the summertime: the local spraypark is fenced in and is entertainment in a pretty small area so he can get some energy out without making us crazy. McDonalds playland does the same thing, if you want to have girltime over cheeseburgers.
And finally, with my love and sympathy for my friend (and sympathy frankly, for the son too) in mind, we do make efforts to love on and give her son experiences. Kids NEED parenting, and they need attention. My husband takes him on "man day" where they go to the barber, learn to skip rocks, play lazer tag, stuff like that. It's what loyalty and love for your friend are about.

Parenting, no matter the number of children, is a challenge. What I thought I knew when I only had one, is nothing compared to what I have learned with many (in my case 6). When you start adding siblings, you add noise and rivalry and a certain degree of chaos. It's joyful and marvelous and adventurous. But it is still a bit of chaos. I spend everyday civilizing my tribe. It's a process. It is a process that is, unfortunately, easily disrupted. My best friend lives a good 1 1/2 hours away. We don't get to see each other often. I love it when she comes to visit. So, do my kids. They adore her. They want her attention. This means that when she makes her quarterly visit, they are in high gear. They are excited. They get louder, faster, funnier. I love her visits, but it does take some time afterward to get the kids back to normal. It's frustrating for me, because I know that they can act better and I want my friend to be able to enjoy her time here.
Despite the commotion, she still visits my home. However, sometimes we don't want to deal with the kids and we meet somewhere just us. When the weather is nice, we take the kids to the park. They run and play and we visit.
I don't know the nature of your friendship. With my best friend, she can speak fairly bluntly. I know that she means well. I know that she cares about me and cares about my kids. You might want to talk to her about your concerns. Or, if you feel a softer approach is necessary, direct her to this site. Send her whatever parenting books you are reading and like. She already knows that her kids are a handful. She just may not know what to do about it.

The easiest way to handle this is to see her without the kids. Go to a movie, or a girls night out together. My best friend and I have girls weekend getaways twice a year and leave the kids at home with our hubbies.
You have only one child so it is much easier for you to discipline. Four children under 6 yeras old is ALOT of work, and a downside of having so many kids within close age of each other is that it is hard to keep them all behaved. My aunt has 3 boys and it was a nightmare having them over to our house for Xmas. Once they got a litle older, they were MUCH better behaved and are actually very sweet and well mannered young men now.
So, you may have to wait until her children are a little older before you can get back to family gathering weekends.
With only one child, it would be easier if you had a family member watch your daughter so that you can visit your friend and her kids. Or have daddy watch her for the weekend so they can have some quality time together and you can get a break since you are a stay at home mom.
Then you won't be so stressed out about what behavior your daughter will pick up.
But to be realistic, you and your daugter spending time with your friend and her wild kids would be no different than daycare,MDO,or preschool. There are all kinds of behaviors in daycare or preschool that your daughter is just as likely to pick it up.

But it does sound like a strain on your friendship, so try to hang out with her alone. She is your best friend. I would be so hurt if my best friend said she didn't want to hang out with me anymore because she thinks my son or daughter is a terror. :(

How about suggesting a girls' day/weekend without the kids? She may be just as frustrated about her kids' behavior, but it sounds like she might just be overwhelmed and doesn't know where to start. If you got her alone and relaxed, I bet it would be like old times and maybe you'll have an opportunity to talk about things. But, keep in mind that your daughter is going to imitate people - both the good and the bad and the only way you can deal with that is to be consistent with how you discipline her so that she knows her behavior is inappropriate. She'll learn those behavior from anyone, not just your friend's kids.

What about saying something like "I love our visits so much, but I feel like we are always interrupted by the kiddos, why don't we plan a visit where we let the hubbies watch the kids???" If you can't do a weekend visit, maybe the two of you could meet 1/2 way for a long lunch/afternoon on a Saturday without the kids once a month for some much needed adult time?

HI LF, if you are stressed out can you imagine how she feels? My suggestion is to travel to her house and hire a sitter for the day. Give her a well deserved break and both of you a meaningful calm visit. If your daughter is learning bad habits try leaving her with a different sitter or grandparent at home. As your friends kids get older their behavior will somewhat change although families with multiple children of the same age always deal with more fighting, hitting, and other issues that parents of single kids or kids further apart in age never experience. Also, as your child gets older she will be able to understand better that different houses and parents have different rules, kids learn this very quickly and it's a great lesson in life... we can't do things just because ___ does them.

WOW....lots of diverse advice. One thing forsure you have to be honest with her! Sometimes as moms we dont see it from the outside looking in. Mention to her that your child has been picking some unacceptable behaviors, after your last visit. Ask her is she is overwhelmed with all the kids? Is she a SAHM? Does she get a break? There comes a time when you have to pick your battles, and maybe she is not sure which battles are worth fighting any more.

It needs to be pointed out to her if her kids are hurting yours or talking back that your child will pick up that behavior. When you are together and your child mimics the unacceptable behavior talk to her (your child) in the eyes, and say someting (in the presence of your friend and the kid) "You know mom does not allow that behavior, just because others make that choice does not me it is a choice for your to make!" I have done this several times with my child in public, it does get a reaction. Is she only around her kids ALL THE TIME? If so then she is not seeing the issues. As a friend, it needs to come from your.

When the next get together is planned, let her know, if they come to your house you are setting more rules and all of the kids will have to follow the same rules and discpline while together. You are setting a structure for your daughter and would like to stay with it. This may help her set some ground rules when she sees if it helps their behavior. When her kids are at your your house, call them out. Set the rules to that of general good manners - share toys, keeping hands, feet, & objects to yourself, use nice words..things that will mirror class room like rules. (If all of her kids are under 6, then one is bound to start kindergarten soon, and she will get a crazy eye opening report from the teaher about her childs behavior!!!) And with school the visits may cut down too, since there will be limits as to when she can travel. As for the discipline, remove the offending child, put the toy being faught over in time out, manditory nap or rest time. Things they will all understand that will be acceptable punishment for all ages.

Good luck with it. It really is a rock and a hard place.

Are all of the kids girls? If not, then maybe suggest a girls trip, reducing the number to tend with.

What about meeting a nuetral, kid friendly environment where the kids can run wild but not neccesarily be the only influence on your child. Increasing the number of kids may even out the average behavior leaving less of an impact on your child. In other words, she won't just be observing the kids with bad behavior but also others with acceptable behavior.

I've been in this situation several times. I just finally had to stop seeing her. But her child was actually hurting my child several times during the visit.

I felt guilty at first, and then I got over it. I saw her recently, and I don't feel guilty anymore. My child is worth more than a friendship.

I'm not taking the time to read the others' advice, so forgive me if I repeat. But ...

If you're visiting with your friend and the kids are being ignored, that may contribute to their behavior troubles. It's normal for young kids to want attention from adults, and if the adults are talking amongst themselves, not really including the kids in the conversation, it may become very easy for the kids to act out, in order to command some attention (even if it's negative).

So my advice is to try planning a gathering that puts the kids right in the center of what's happening. Take them all to the zoo and talk to THEM about the animals, etc. Or go on a picnic, tailored to their taste and then play with them on the equipment. Or just sit in the playroom and play with them, doing what they want to do. I know that cuts in to your "mom" time, but it may improve the kids' behavior to the point that you can at least enjoy being with your friend for a while. It also may give you the opportunity to model appropriate ways to handle bad behavior. Maybe your friend will learn some things from you.

I would try meeting her without the kids also. Try and save the relationship if you can. If it doesn't work out to go out with out the kids, then maybe talk to her on the phone after the kids are in bed or taking naps. Be honest with her and tell her it is difficult for you all to meet. Could her husband or family watch the kids while you meet?

Our church has a parents night out each month. You could try finding one at a church near you. I know other churches do it also. You could see if you both could drop your kids off at Parent's Night Out. Usually there is a cost for this. However, it is worth a night out and you all can go out for some girl time.

I faired through a similar situation. Honesty with love is always the best policy. It could very well keep your relationship from coming to an abrupt end with words of regreat spoken.

Recommend a "book study" and read "Love and Logic" together. You'll learn some things, she will hopefully learn alot of new things! I don't think it will be as harsh if you say you also could use some new techniques in dealing with your child.

www.loveandlogic.com

You know the saying, until you walk in someone else's shoes you can only see the surface. Friendship has a lot of meanings, to have a friend is a Blessing. Before your visits, prepare yourself, ask yourself what can I do to help without over stepping boundries, What can I do to make our visits more enjoyable for all of us. Lots to think about. I hope that you & your friend continue to visit with one another and that You will treasure the moments you spend with one another. Life is much to short to sweat the small stuff. I pray one day you'll look back on this and realize that it wasn't all that bad. And your Friendship is Priceless!

If you are both Christian women I would suggest going to the bookstore and getting 2 copies of raising children according to God not sure of the name and tell her you got one for you too and thought you guys could read it at the same time.

This is a tough one. I have a friend whose daughter is a lot wilder than my son, but she is an only child, so it isn't as bad as four. I love to get together with my friend and would never question her parenting style, but I still don't want my boys picking up unacceptable behavior, so I do this. I see my friend with kids in tow at the park once in a while or at a special occasion. We, also, live several hours apart. Otherwise, I just say I need time away from the kids and suggest we do something for grown ups only like dinner or drinks. This way no one is hurt or offended and we still get to visit. As our children get older things have gotten better as far as acting appropriately in public, so we do more things all together now. Good luck!

i didn't read the other responses, but I'm wondering why you guys are having your visits WITH the kids around. I would make it a true girls weekend and leave the kids with dad and have some 1-on-1 time. That's what all of my girlfriends and I do. It's next to impossible to truly have a good time with a bunch of kids running around. We want to sit around, drink, and talk and not worry about kids. who cares how her kids behave if you aren't around to see it. ;)

I understand your frustration - however girlfriends in life are a priceless gift that don't come around all the time - you have to cherish them!! Perhaps some one on one times without kids until yours is a little bigger - we need to support one another as moms - none of us is perfect - and we need our girlfriends! I wish you luck!! If your child is being harmed by her kids physically - then by all means protect your child. She probably needs some help if she has 4 kids under 6 - put yourself in her shoes for just a moment.