16 answers

Entitlement Continued

I loved the Entitlement thread response and the interest it generated. Thank you for all who took the time to read it and reply. I know I gave out over 30 flowers all day long! It was enlightening to see that I may have helped wake up a few young parents that were heading down that same path. I loved the private messages thanking me for being brave enough to share my own failures. I found it funny how judgmental some people were even though I raked myself over the coals already. Oh well, I guess it makes people feel better to point out other people's defects even after they already fully acknowledged them. Kind of like when people comment on how fat a beautiful actress is as they hide behind their own computer screens in sweats, eating pop tarts! (smile)

I do want to really thank those of you who let me off the hook a bit more than I deserve by pointing out that you can have 10 kids in one family all raised the same and half may turn out with issues and half may be productive loving adults or nine can turn out great and one can be on drugs or entitled and spoiled beyond belief... WHO really knows WHAT causes a kid to have that chip missing that is grateful or addicted or whatever?
I know that between my two kids I just grew up in the seven years that are between my son and my daughter.
One day my daughter and I were out shopping with my best friend and her girls. My best friend has always had probably five times the money we have from early on. When we both were growing up, I think that she may have thoug that I was the spoiled one but in our adult years, even when we owned our successful little store, she always had the Lexus and BMW , the two or three homes etc... we would shop and she would buy her girls a bag of something in every store. My daughter knew we didn't have the same means and would never complain. But one year before her freshman year of High School we were shopping with our friends and she picked up a sweat shirt jacket that was around $60 and asked me if she could have it. I looked at the price tag as if to say you're kidding right? I told her that it would come out of her school clothes budget and she just put it back in the rack with NO attitude or rolling of the eyes, just accepted that it was crazy to ask for it and kept browsing. I was so touched by her sense of unentitlement that I bought it when she followed them to another store. I gave it to her and told her that this would not be coming out of her budget and she cried stating Mama we can't afford this... Later my friend asked me HOW I made my kid so grateful and I told her that you just don't give something to them everytime they want it so when you do splurge, they are grateful. My daughter is 23 and still has that jacket. It is like a sweet memory for both of us.

I made a lot of mistakes and my daughter is not perfect either. Some will read that story and have some dig to say about it. the point is that we all live in glass houses and I have found myself with a fistful of rocks from time to time behind my own glass walls but you know what? The older I get, the more rocks I have dropped. If we can all share our stories, mistakes included and help the other young mothers see themselves in us and maybe save them from making the mistakes we did, then maybe our mistakes can turn out for someone else's good. I mean isn't that what mamapedia is all about?

What can I do next?

So What Happened?™

I am so amazed at the wonderful women on this thread. Thank you every single one of you for taking the time to post here and share your stories. You are an inspiration! Our stories are our lessons for one another, our hope and our way to pay it forward. My heart is to somehow share my experiences, my mistakes and my successes and maybe somehow as one wonderful poster said... even if it helps just one person, it is worth it! You guys are my gifts this holiday season. I love mamapedia and the women who took the time to respond. I hope you continue to share your stories here! God bless you every one!!!

More Answers

Your post was awesome and it spawned a PM with me and another mom. I want to add that we all knocked spoiling kids and handing them lots of stuff, but also, as the other mom pointed out, it's even MORE important not to allow disrespectful, arrogant, mean behavior, even in tiny kids on small beginner levels. That was why I had mentioned discipline in my post as well as not going overboard on material things. When parents let their kids walk all over them, boss them around, throw fits, react ungratefully, beg for stuff, mistreat their stuff, etc. HOW will they learn it's not OK? Every little attitude adjustment along the way is just as important for the future as not taking things for granted.

Lots of very wealthy people with EVERYTHING manage to raise conscientious hard working kids. Respect, manners and work ethic are right in the mix with not getting stuff just because you want it and your parents can afford it. Thanks for the thread you started, and sorry for the meanies.
It takes all kinds......

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To me, there is both wisdom and humility in sharing our stories in honesty.
You did that beautifully yesterday, and just now, too.

My son is still very young (in the relative sense, to the mom of a newborn, 4.5 years is old) and I am still muddling along, making mistakes. I tend to post more of those on my blog than I do here. I think it's important to share my mistakes with other parents; I have twenty years of experience with kids and have a small peer group in my life which does, from time to time, ask me advice and look up to me. I appreciate that role and know that for it to be a healthy exchange, I have to be 'real' with them. I love these women and want them to know I am not a perfect parent. I am probably harder on myself regarding my own missteps and challenges as a parent than even my son or husband would be, and I want to share this.

I am also fortunate to have a couple dear "mothering mentors" in my life, both of whom I used to nanny for and know on a very personal level. Our willingness to both listen to, and--- when we see it needed-- to gently advise and correct each other, makes those relationships very meaningful to me. These aren't usual friendships. One is my son's preschool teacher right now, another is a woman who is just plain brilliant and who has a more "auntie" relationship with our Kiddo. It's because of their feedback that I can feel better and more confident in my parenting. This is just a part of my 'village', and sometimes, what they say does sting, but I know that they love us and where those corrections come from. (The more it stings, the more they're usually right.) I am so fortunate, too, because I came from a family that did a terrible job of modeling healthy parenting, so having these guiding women in my life is like being given a compass. It's truly two different entities, being a care provider vs. being a parent, and I would struggle far more to do well without their help and support.

All that to say, we are all in this together. In regard to this forum: it seems that there are always going to be people who are going to knock down others who ask for help or are being honest... that's their stuff. In my opinion, some people are hurting and going to be m.e.a.n. whenever they see an opportunity to. I suppose they aren't looking for moments when they can be compassionate, perhaps because they are not extending that compassion and love and forgiveness to themselves. I've been there, too, and it's not a great place to be. Do try to take it with a big pinch of salt.

Three cheers for honesty and self-realization and truth.:)

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Enjoyed BOTH of your posts.
If I might add another thought, though (ok, I'll take that as a "yes", lol)...

I think that we all (myself included) need to give thought to why we do or don't give material things to our kids and when and how much. I don' t think BY ITSELF that restricting the number of or dollar amount spent on gifts forms/shapes our kids' ability to be grateful. I think that is an approach that is more legalistic than I care to follow, and that is unnecessary to achieve a goal of having kids who don't feel entitled or ungrateful. I think we all need to use good sense and a bit of judgment and discernment about what is appropriate and when. I don't think it is necessary to "deprive" our kids of great things and toys to teach them to feel grateful. I think if that is THE thing you count on to get them to feel that way, then it may well backfire on you later.
It's OKAY to 'spoil' our kids with THINGS from time to time.

I keep reading moms on this site mentioning how few items or how little money they spend for this or that regarding gifts, and that is fine... what you do is your business not mine. But I sometimes wonder if there isn't a bit of pride in how little you give your kids (in those cases when you could do much more and choose to do 1 gift or whatever). My husband and I do not subscribe to that idea, obviously. But my parents often "brag" about how cheap they were able to get by on something, as if spending a little money on a non-essential is a sin. We teach our kids respect (for themselves and others, in particular parents and those in authority like teachers, for hard work, etc), and appreciation for what they have been blessed with. I think what your Dad did (made you earn those toys instead of just giving them all to you) is a good example of what I'm talking about...
There is a growing number of discontented people that thinks that if we can't ALL have everything we want, then nobody should be able to be indulged in anything without being frowned upon. I don't buy into that. If I want to spoil my kid and give them a ____, then I will, and I won't feel guilty about it. But the day my kid starts to demand something, then they will be reminded about the distinction between a gift and an obligation.
It is very easy to say "my kids don't ever ask for anything" when they are young. My kids didn't ask for things then either. I haven't changed my parenting tactics, but amazingly, now that they have been out in the world not under my direct instruction/control a little bit, Surprise!! They want this, and this and this and can we have that... ? We talk a lot of about "need" vs. "want"... and when they say "Mama, you HAVE to get me a ___" I simply say to them: "I HAVE to what?" and they immediately "get" it. They have been told "no" many many times, and they know that I have no qualms with telling them "no" about anything. Because I do. But not just arbitrarily because "it will make them more grateful later". I tell them no because something is too much money, or is cheaply made, or I just don't like it, or I think they might use it improperly, or it is dangerous, or _____. But I have reasons, not just for the sake of saying "no". Perhaps what I have been reading from moms who make general statements like they "only buy one gift for birthdays and 3 at Christmas" or whatever, are just slightly misrepresenting what the reality of their lives are. I hope so, anyway. I LOVE spoiling my kids with an italian ice on a hot summer day for no reason except that it sounds good. But that in no way translates that every time there is a shaved ice place in view I am going to buy them one.

Sorry for venturing a bit off the subject, but there is a flip side to the whole discussion that I sortof feel like has been overlooked. It's great to recognize that if you give in to your child on every whim or to tantrums, or whatever, that you stand a very good chance of raising an "entitled brat". But I don't think that giving in on one thing here or there, or having nice or fun material things is evil, either. Sorry it sort of turned into an almost rant, lol... but I really just wanted to say that we should be careful not to swing too far in the opposite direction either. :)

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Wait, your kids are not perfect?! Mine are!!

BAHAWAHA!!

(Well, they're perfect for ME anyway!)

Great post.

:)

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I think the entitlement problem can be completely separate from a family’s means and ability to spoil children with material goods. My husband grew up with one brother close in age and a doting mother who avoids conflict at all costs. Everything they ever got was even-steven: gifts, chores, praise, responsibility. To this day the Christmas gifts and random tokens of generosity are 100% equal every time. Even worse, they were always “taken care of”. Sure they had some responsibilities and in general my in-laws raised two great, loving responsible adult men, But nobody really every asked them to give anything up, work through a problem on their own, or deal with the discomfort of life not going their way. They always had the road smoothed out ahead for them. Always had their parents jump in to solve their problems and “help”. As a result, they have very little coping skills. My husband breaks down at the slightest sign of stress or anxiety. He is so uncomfortable with marital disagreements because he never witnessed them and is used to being validated and agreed with, not challenged. He had a very hard time adjusting to having children (we have 2 now) and getting his precious sleep, personal time, first rights at food, TV, etc. infringed upon. He really was used to his needs always coming before anyone else’s (boy that gets blown outta the water when you have kids right?).

I on the other hand was raised in a family of 6 kids. Lots of sharing, waiting turns for the shower, bargaining to watch what you wanted on TV, taking smaller portions than you wanted of the tastiest foods, making the beds/folding laundry of others just to help out, being gracious in moments when it’s not about you but about a siblings success or reward or tough day or what have you… I feel I sacrificed a lot and did a lot of things for the good of the household before I could do things for myself. Not to an extreme but to a healthy level. And because there were a lot of us, we were flying the nest and heading towards full independence by age 20 because my parents had other kids to focus on.

Now I have a 4 year old who thinks she rules the roost, and I am having a tough time instilling the same sense of self-sacrifice and delayed gratification that I grew up with. I keep thinking, how can I do this the way my parents did… short of having 4 more kids :)

I’m working on it though. It IS important. Thanks for the reminders. Good topic.

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WONDERFUL POST!!!

Thanks!
michele/cat

***dropping rocks as I type***

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I understand all that you are saying, Di, but I think that you are actually doing the same thing that you fuss at others for when you add "I found it funny how judgmental some people were even though I raked myself over the coals already. Oh well, I guess it makes people feel better to point out other people's defects even after they already fully acknowledged them. Kind of like when people comment on how fat a beautiful actress is as they hide behind their own computer screens in sweats, eating pop tarts! (smile)". Do you see my point?

We DO share our stories here, but I don't think people did anything wrong with pointing out that parents are at least partly culpable for young peoples' entitlement attitudes. Look at it like this - if everyone gave you kudos on that entire thread, who would learn a thing from it? You wrote on here not only for support, but also to teach others from your experience and the hard lesson you learned. THAT is also what mamapedia is about.

D.

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I totally agree with the idea that you can have multiple kids in the same family raised the same way, with same methods and the same values, and who knows why they all still turn out different.

I read your post from yesterday and it's refreshing to see someone openly admit that maybe they dropped the ball somewhere along the way, but also realize too that sometimes there is only so much we are in control of. At some point kids start making their own choices about how they live their lives and we can't always feel responsible for the decisions they make. We can't always know how much our influence plays into the choices they make. Hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easy enough to play "Monday morning quarterback" with our parenting decisions. I think the thing is now is that you need to start cutting the cord more with your son so he has no choice but to do more for himself. He may get angry about it, but it is the nature of those who have been enabled, once they are no longer being enabled, to get angry at the enabler. If he starts giving you a hard time, remind him that you fulfilled your obligation - he had food on the table, clothes on his back, a roof over his head, educational opportunities, medical care, was protected from harm, and was shown love repeatedly. What he decides to do now is up to him.

I have my own story regarding my stepsons, who are now 17 and 18. The 18 year old just finished high school this past spring, is currently working part-time flipping burgers, and talks about going to college but hasn't taken any of the necessary steps to actually make it happen. The 17 year old is a junior in high school and thinks he wants to study culinary arts but gets mediocre grades when he is capable of much, much more. They are both nice, good, kids, but unless they start setting some concrete goals in place and see them through, they are going to slip through the cracks and not have much of a future. All their lives, their mother made things easy on them - she didn't want them to struggle, she didn't want them to feel like she hated them, she wanted them to be happy all the time. She figured they would have to deal with the real world soon enough and for now they should "just be kids" and enjoy it. Her opinion was that as long as they weren't juvenile delinquents and engaging in criminal behavior, they should be able to have and allowed to do whatever they wanted. And now they continue to expect others to make things easy on them, and for everything to happen for them with minimal effort. The real world is here and they don't know how to handle it. The younger one in particular seems to have more of a sense of "entitlement" - when we took them on vacation with us last year and he kept copping an attitude about everything, we reminded him that we didn't need to take him on this trip, and we didn't need to take him on future trips (they live with their mom). He tried to argue back that he was our kid, and we "HAD" to take him - ummm, guess what? NO WE DON'T! And one memory I have that particularly stands out in my mind is one time when they, their mother, and myself went out to lunch and the boys were around 6 or 7. While we were waiting for our food, they both got activity pages with stuff on them to do and crayons. The younger one looked at his and whined that he didn't know how to do any of them. If it were up to me, my response would have been to either show him how they were done, or tell him to flip it over and draw a picture on the back. But their mom was with us, and her response was to CALL THE WAITRESS OVER AND ASK FOR A DIFFERENT ONE for her son! I couldn't believe it but I kept my mouth shut. Because I didn't have kids of my own at the time and I knew the quickest way to piss of my husband's ex-wife was to question or criticize or say anything about anything she did when it came to those boys. I'm don't doubt that in her mind she thought she was doing to right thing for her son. But long-term, it seems to me that such actions don't teach them anything or do them any favors, except that other people should bend over backwards and be inconvenienced in order to cater to their every need and whim.

Another time they wanted an XBOX game system and their mom told them they had to save up their money for it. God Bless them, they saved all their birthday money, Christmas money, and extras for over a year to get that XBOX. They were going to buy it after Christmas when it went on sale. Then their mom ended up buying it for them, paying full price so they could be surprised on Christmas morning when they found it under the tree. She thought she was being nice, rewarding them for saving and being patient, and now they could use their savings for more games and other things. I thought she totally blew an opportunity to teach them an essential life lesson.

THAT is how kids grow up feeling entitled!

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