Downsides of Truly Shared, Flexible, Enmeshed Custody?

I think what you are doing is great. It appears that other people can only function in a formal custodial setting because they cannot deal with each other (hence the divorce). It sounds like both of you are putting the kids' needs at the top (like most people do while they are married) and then making arrangements that work. I only know a single couple that made what you are doing work and they have since re-married (each other) and just had a baby. If this is working it seems so much more civilized than how most divorce couples interact (and what they model for their kids).

If informal is working for you at this point then there's no reason to complicate it. You are both putting the children first and that's the sticking part that trips up most couples. Things might change once either of you add a SO to the mix but for now just keep doing what you are doing and adjust as needed.

My girlfriend and her ex do this. They sold the family home and bought two condos in the same complex (not the same building but you could watch the kids walk from one to the next). They did divorce eventually, but this has been going on for nearly 10 years now. They do have the whole holiday schedule on paper for the courts but because they are literally within shouting distance - the kids have never had to pick. The bus stop is the same, the kids go back and forth, (when it began they were 3 and 5), the parents share the job of getting them to and from everything...Honestly, when they separated, I did not think buying condos so close was a good thing but for them - it forced them to work together and now they will both say that they have recovered a friendship.

I guess I am saying do what works for your family - and adapt as needed. Hang in there!

From my experience, most Ex's aren't nearly as compatible and flexible as you describe you and your ex. Those black and white 'your day versus my day', draw a line in the sand and you figure out how to parent on your own stances, are probably due to the high level of animosity that preempted the divorce in the first place. So the single parent has to reach out to supportive family and friends to pitch in. But ultimately, it's always a favor, not an obligation.

I think you are missing nothing in that you both are parents, parenting your own children as it should be and have set a new model for others to witness that divorced parents, or informal not yet divorced parents, can get along well enough to raise their own kids, manage all their family responsibilities as a team.

Well done!!

I compliment you for the way you and their father have worked out a plan that works for all of you. I see your ability to be flexible while meeting the needs of your children admirable. Why do you want to fit the "norm?" I imagine the couples who have scheduled parenting time also talk about ways that their plans are difficult. I suggestmated that other families are also flexible in finding what works for them. We hear most from those who are dissatisfied.

I think those other parents do everything separate because they can't make it work, it sounds like you can. The two of you seem to have at least a good enough relationship to where you can truly put your kids needs first and that is a wonderful thing. Don't worry about what others are doing and just keep up the good work.

I am not divorced. My brother was and they had a court order and both were so inflexible. She has a game so you can't take them this weekend. I can't meet you so you have to come all the way to get them, etc. It was horrible hearing them yelling at each other. I also have 2 friends that had kids and divorced. They both had very flexible relationships. One even became best friends with her ex after they were no longer married and living together. And they both remarried while they need to be flexible and it worked out fine. Personally, I think both of those relationships had it made because while the kids stil had to deal with their parents being separated, they did not have the fighting that went along with who gets who when and why and all the other stuff that can happen. If it works for you, why change it until you need to tweek things a bit.

oh, girlie.
you finally did what needed to be done. i'm so proud of you for that.
and it's working. it's working really well.
but being JB, you're looking for things to poke.
you are a wonderful goof, you know that?
who cares that a more formal schedule is what most people do? and who knows? maybe you'll move to that too.
right now your flexible open coping mechanism is working for everybody. so keep it until it doesn't.
ETA after reading the other responses i DO see why having things in writing is also important. and your ex tends to be flaky. so do keep that in mind, and be prepared to go to a more formalized agreements if this one starts to break down. hope it doesn't, though.
khairete
S.

If you guys can do that then good for you. My ex is very flexible like this but my husband's ex is not. We literally had to have their parenting time in black and white or she would not budge on being flexible about anything. So then if she was like that, MY EX would rearrange his parenting time because we had to stick with hers (all our kids were at our ex's on the same weekends then we would have the other weekends with no kids...nice).

So it just depends on the family. Ideally every parent should be able to work together like you guys are. It is what's best for the kids. But then one gets a bug up their butt about something and gets nasty and it benefits NO ONE. Good luck.

It's great that it's working for you now, which is a critical time for the kids. So the absence of animosity is terrific, and the flexible arrangement allows for their schedules.

You ask what you're missing. You're missing the fact that, at any time, your ex can decide he doesn't want to a) be accommodating, b) play nice or c) have you dictating the schedule and responsibilities for him. His daughter already needs her own space, and you prior posts have detailed so many instances when your husband just didn't "get it" and when he was selfish and clueless and dictatorial. So as soon as that side resurfaces, you're screwed.

So what you do is you put in a schedule, and you can then informally agree to some occasional exchanges of time that coincide with each other's schedules - a business trip, a trip with one of the kids for a tournament, etc. Having an agreement doesn't mean that there can't be an exception to the rule - just that there has to be a rule. Child support can get all mixed up in that sometimes ("I had them more than the schedule says, so why should I have to pay you for time they were with me?" or "I took them to 6 games and 3 doctors' appointments, and you did nothing.") When the "honeymoon" period of the separation wears off and the realities of shlepping kids back and forth sets in, or when teens stop wanting to see the non-custodial parent because they have evening activities on the weekends, then you start hearing things like "I don't want to go see Dad. Why do I have to?" Yes, being in new relationships is a huge factor, but it's not the only one. Kids need structure and knowing what to expect, and so do ex spouses.

You don't have to divorce to have a visitation and support agreement in place. You can (and should) file for a legal separation. It also protects you against his debts and so on. If he gets in all kinds of financial trouble (or if you do), the other one needs to be protected. You can also put in provisions for deposits to kids' college funds or high school activity funds, orthodontia, summer camp, and what not. I do urge you to do this even if, right now, you are getting along with each other.

Informal equals no legal protection. The legal system cannot enforce what is not legally defined.

We have always stuck to a legal, formal schedule because if there are any disagreements there is a definite legal answer which is the tie breaker. The added benefit is it provided us with the sadly necessary chain to yank when my husband's ex decides to be a royal PITA. For instance when his ex decided we could not have my stepdaughter for his defined times, we had to go through the cycle of call the sheriff’s department, file a report, accumulate reports, take her back to court to be found in contempt, rinse and repeat. If the matter was informal, then my husband would never have been allowed to see his child.
My brother and his ex have a formal agreement but never use it. It’s just there in case it is needed. I know a lot of couple’s who operate that way.
The bottom line is life is fine so long as everyone plays nice and keeps matters fair. However, most divorces are not so lucky to be that amicable. There are reasons there was a divorce in the first place and informal custody agreements don’t negate those reasons or the fallout from those reasons. Frankly as unreliable as your ex is, I would want everything legally defined for my own sanity and that of the children. I can tell you from experience the children will suffer more than anyone when the adults cannot get along. I will never forget the sound of my stepdaughter sobbing and begging her mother to let her see her dad. I hope there is a dungeon in Hell for that woman. Good luck whatever you decide.

I have never divorced, so I can't answer your actual question. I do want to say that if I were you, I would establish your formal separation as soon as possible, JB. You really don't want to pay any more spousal support than you actually have to. The clock starts ticking either at the beginning of the legal separation OR at the divorce, according to the laws of your state. DON'T let this drag on with no formalized decree! He'll just continue to bleed you more and more if you do.

My ex and I are EXTREMELY flexible. I have no idea how people stick to schedules, we would never be able to work that way. I have the kids 90+% of the time bcause he always travels, but when he's in the area, we take it day by day as to who can do what or who wants to do what.

It's been this way for 4+ years with no plans of changing. Do what works for you and don't worry about other people. When I hear my divorced friends naming off their set schedules it sets my head spinning. But I know for them, going by the seat of their pants all the time would do the same. It depends totally on your personalities.

It's useful to have a schedule if one parent is prone to shirk...you get to MAKE SURE they put in their time...or I guess if one parent was too possessive so you had to force them to share....but if you guys both roll with the punches and work together all the better.

I am not divorced nor are my parents, but I have several friends who have gone through this. I can tell you, the ones who have the happiest kids are the ones who do as little as possible to disrupt their kids lives. Sounds like what you all have now is working, but it will only work as long as you and your ex/husband make it work. It's when there is turmoil (I want the kids for the picnic this weekend, well I wanted to take them to the movies, etc) comes in to play. You have to put the kids first and I don't see where any issues would come in.

I would do formal arrangements for holidays.

My first husband and I (have two girls together - now grown) had the "black and white" arrangement - he rarely fulfilled his 1/2, and I was always the one who picked up the pieces. Nothing else would have worked for us.

My 2nd husband and I (we have 1 girl together) had a very "casual" arrangement and it sounds much like the arrangement that you have now. We often did things together or picked up where the other person left off. However, we did have a "black and white" written arrangement in our divorce. That was very helpful when we were not able to see eye to eye for periods of time after our divorce (we divorced when our daughter was an infant and she turned 18 this year so there were times over nearly 18 years that we simply were not getting along).

People would comment on how closely my 2nd husband and I co-parented our daughter and how lucky we were and our daughter was. However, there were "downsides" to this type of parenting that have to be considered. My 2nd husband really loves his daughter, but often the "true responsibility" of raising her came down to me. I'm not complaining, but not only was I my daughter's safety net, I was often his, too. Instead of ever calling on his family to help when there was an issue, I was expected to take care of it. If finances were tough, he was the one who always left me holding the bag. If I had it to do over again, I would have gotten my 2nd husband to take a little more responsibility regarding the raising of our daughter - he never really learned that just loving her wasn't enough to raise a child. Love is important, but so is food, clothing, being on time, homework, etc.

You mentioned that you are not in a hurry to finalize your divorce. I think that you are making a mistake in that regard. Get the formalities out of the way. Get everything in writing. Divide the money, responsibilities, etc. now. If you guys can get along and do extra for the kids beyond that, that is great. However, have something written in stone now can really save heartache later.

Finally, the other real barrier for parents who are separated yet co-parent as much as I did (and you are now doing) is getting into another relationship. I know it is way too soon for that right now, but finding a guy who is willing to go along with this unique style of parenting might be difficult. I was really lucky - my husband and my 2nd husband get along pretty good, and my husband rarely had a problem with how we parented. However, this may be because my husband didn't bring any children to our marriage (we have 3 boys we adopted together) and didn't have an ex of his own to deal with.

Good luck!

Do what works best for your family and their needs. Don't go by what others are doing or have done. If this is working for your kids then stick to it. You can always adjust visits later on.

My ex let me have the kids all the time, right up until custody = money. That is unfortunately why there is so much my time, his time, grrrrr. My ex would take them to work with him, put them in a room, give them nothing to do, but he had them!! If I suggested why don't you just drop them off here, I am home anyway, YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO TRICK ME INTO GIVING YOU MORE MONEY!!! He seriously yelled that so loud I didn't need the phone to hear him. All I wanted is for the kids to be happy, all he wanted was as much of his money.

Now that they are older they are mostly with me, he fought me right up to, I don't want any money you idiot. He insisted he still get every other weekend and I promised he could take them out whenever he wanted. That was about three years ago, he has never once called to take them anywhere and weekends have become late Friday early Saturday until Sunday morning.

Probably more information than you needed but most I know it is all about money.

I just want to add because there are so many really negative responses, I thought mine was negative until I read others, mine sounds sunshine and daisies. You can write in the type of custody sharing you are currently doing into a custody agreement. Don't let the you need the power of words posts convince you otherwise. My ex would not have signed something like that, he was more of a pound of flesh kind of guy. If you can get your husband to sign it what you are doing is best for the kids.

Leaving it the way it is now isn't problematic, for now. He might not have time to do all that he's doing now. You might get tired of all the running and decide it's time for him to take the kids all weekend so you can have time off from everything.

The worst thing about this, to me, is that there are no written lines. Such as who decides if the kids get to sign up for the activities and sports? What if dad says no, that he's not going to pay for them anymore and isn't going to provide any financial support? What if dad decides he's not in favor of something? Do you have the "right" to counter his decision? If there is no custody and written guidelines then he has just as much right to say no as you do. If there is a written guideline as to what to do when you guys disagree on something is to be settled then it's important to have.

We had one couple divorce and dad flat out said I refuse to pay a penny for dance lessons for my daughter. If she has a dance activity on my time she will not be there. If there is rehearsals or costume costs or shoes or a performance, she will not participate on my time nor will I contribute to those activities in any way. The mom couldn't afford to pay for it all out of her own pocket plus the missed rehearsals and performances would hinder deeply so she had no choice except to drop her out of the one thing she loved most.

If you have a legal separation then it's all written down. Where each person can pull it out and read it. See what they have agreed to. What money they are sending where each month?

It is something to think about. Your kids are older and dad and mom seem to both be on the same page for now.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Glad things are working out for you!

Updated

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Glad things are working out for you!

I think being flexible like you are is the best option. The reason most people are not is because they don't get along or have trouble agreeing with eachother/being reasonable or don't want to have to communicate as much as you do, hence part of why they are not together anymore. If it is working for you and the kids then keep it going that way.

We had no formalized "your day, my day". We both attended her activities and the school didn't even realize we were divorced (we have one daughter).

I think what you are missing is your youngest two (jointly created) kiddos don't have any space at their dad's!! Do they sleep on the floor? Couch? They are not going to feel like his "real kids" but certainly different (less than) "his" daughter. He needs to move to a space with enough room for all of his kids, even if it costs more.

What works best depends on the people involved, but IMO, it helps to have boundaries and at least a loose schedule or it becomes chaos. Who has what child has lead to some families leaving a child behind by accident, for example. My friend has a good relationship with his ex, but he was really angry when she felt that his allowing her to come into their former home to pick up the kids meant she could also "borrow" things from him. In our case, my DH had primary custody during the school year, so predominantly everything was on us. We did the reverse in the summer, when she had primary custody and he had EOWE. If sharing a lot is what works for you for now, go for it. I just caution that right now neither of you are in another relationship, right? So be prepared for things to need to change/firm up. We never left the sks stranded or hanging, even on "her weekend" but we did expect that on her scheduled time, she was the first one to be called/on call. I personally am also not a fan of every few nights being at another house - I think it causes the kids to live out of suitcases instead of feeling stable. Week on/Week off with flexibility in the middle (like for games) may be a good compromise. I would also think that your former stepdaughter is dealing with a lot, as she must have been through something like this before. Allowing her some space is a good thing. Bear in mind, too, that many inflexible schedules are borne out of inflexible people. My DH's ex was never as reasonable as our friend's exwife. If we gave her an inch, she'd try for a mile. Maybe that's why they call a friend who won't cause them so much headache.