J.T. asks from New Lisbon, NJ on February 19, 2011
Does Grades and Behavior Go Hand & hand...what Do You Think?
Hello everyone,
My son came home yesterday with his test scores: Grammar 90%, Vocabulary 100%, Comprehension 80%, & phonics 90%. There was also a note attached saying points will be deducted for behavior during test(talking). My personal opinion is there should be other forms of punishment besides lowering a students grades. When I was in school if a student had bad behavior the consequences were as follows: no recess, phone call home, writing sentences about what you did wrong, no field trips, sent to the office, etc. I know times have changed significantly but is this the right form of punishment for talking? I know my son should have consequences for his behavior but I don't think these are the right ones. How would you moms handle this? Thanks in advance for the advice. P.S....this form of punishment is not stated in the handbook and it was never mentioned during PTA meetings, or class meetings which I attend often.
So What Happened?™
UPDATE: My son is in the 3rd grade. I just spoke to my sons teacher via email. She explained to me that the reason she wanted to lower my sons grades is because she was very disappointed at him. She explained that he's the youngest and one of the brightest students in the class and she expects more out of him. She expects him to continuously be one of the leaders in the classroom. She stated that he's never been a problem child and she don't want him to start so she wants to nip it in the bud early. Thanks for the good advice so far.
Featured Answers
A.D. answers from Minneapolis on February 19, 2011
I agree with the school's decision. My 6th grade daughter would have had all A's, but she lost 50% of her weekly participation points in once class for "excessive talking" She ended up with a B+ in that class. She was VERY upset, BUT we wholeheartedly back the teacher. She has always leaned overly social in school, and this was not the first time she was docked points due to her talking too much. This consequence really got her attention. Excessive talking is a disruption to the whole class, it also means the student isn't doing their best job by being respectful, working, and listening. All things that should be taken into consideration when they are graded.
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G.T. answers from Modesto on February 19, 2011
It's probably a satisfactory way to get the parent's attention as well as the students. A straight A student with bad citizenship isnt gonna do the world any good. It seems fair to me.
8 moms found this helpful
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A.D. answers from Minneapolis on February 19, 2011
I agree with the school's decision. My 6th grade daughter would have had all A's, but she lost 50% of her weekly participation points in once class for "excessive talking" She ended up with a B+ in that class. She was VERY upset, BUT we wholeheartedly back the teacher. She has always leaned overly social in school, and this was not the first time she was docked points due to her talking too much. This consequence really got her attention. Excessive talking is a disruption to the whole class, it also means the student isn't doing their best job by being respectful, working, and listening. All things that should be taken into consideration when they are graded.
10 moms found this helpful
G.T. answers from Modesto on February 19, 2011
It's probably a satisfactory way to get the parent's attention as well as the students. A straight A student with bad citizenship isnt gonna do the world any good. It seems fair to me.
8 moms found this helpful
E.K. answers from Minneapolis on February 19, 2011
We got warned by the school that behavior/attitude would start to factor into points, scores, grades, etc. as they got into 3rd-4th grade. So we knew things like sloppy writing, lateness, not listening, disrupting the class, etc. would start to count against them.
Their theory was:
#1 We need the kids (and parents) to understand how important it is to be respectful of themselves and others NOW because you cannot teach this at 13 yrs old or 16 yrs old or 33 yrs old -- We need to make sure we get 'em young.
#2 Every time a teacher has to redirect a misbehaving child, the other students are missing out on the teacher's time and attention which is obviously not fair to them
Heck -- The kids in 4th are getting "detention" (which means no recess) for not putting their name on their paper. = )
I have no arguments against the approach. I could be the smartest most innovative employee but if I cannot deliver my work on time, be pleasant with colleagues and respect directions, policies, etc. then I am not the best employee I could be.
6 moms found this helpful
M.P. answers from Pittsburgh on February 19, 2011
I don't see anything wrong with lowering a test grade for bad behavior DURING the test. He should not have talked while other kids were testing. While your son might not have had a problem with the test other kids might have and deserve the respect of silence so that they can finish. That is why the rule is in place. And it kind of sounds like you are making excuses for his poor behavior. He was wrong and the teacher called him out on it which is perfectly ok. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned and he will not misbehave during testing again.
How would I handle it? I would tell him that he should not talk during a test and that rules are meant to be followed. I would also say that when we break the rules we have to accept the consequences no matter how unfair they might seem to us. What I would have never done is to side with my son against the teacher. THis sets up a lifelong response to authority-an "its not MY fault" mentality that will set a person up for failure and make them unhireable.
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D.P. answers from Pittsburgh on February 19, 2011
I see what you're saying but they DO need to learn that test taking is an individual thing--NOT a team sport!
5 moms found this helpful
A.J. answers from Williamsport on February 19, 2011
Doesn't matter. It's the rules, and he should be behaving during the test, and once he does, there won't be any deduction. You could try convincing the school to change their policy, but I would direct the energy telling your son he needs to change his behavior. I would be adding consequences at home for misbehaving and getting the deduction, not just leaving it like the school did all the work. Being a good student is every bit as difficult and important as knowing the information. It all helps give him self control skills for the future. My kids aren't there yet, but it was very hard for me to behave in school, so I'm bracing myself!
-Just saw your update-as for the wisecrack about him being immature-sure, say something to the teacher about it. But you're still seeing this as all completely unfair to your son, when in actuality, he was not behaving. My teachers said all kinds of things to students who were acting up-in those days, they didn't have parents questioning the validity of everything on behalf of their kids like now. No harm was done by the teacher's comment, she was probably ruffled by your son's behavior, but by all means, let her know not to do that in the future.
My daughter recently got a "less than excellent" mark for class behavior, and when her teacher told me she had been "getting sticks taken away" (reward system they use), it was like she was afraid I was going to be mad at her (teacher) for it. I asked exactly what my daughter was doing, and she said, "Just pushing boundaries, it's normal at this phase and age (she's 4 in K4) that kids push boundaries now that they're comfortable in class and around each other and sort of copying the trouble makers...I said, "No problem, thanks so much for telling me and please let me know how she does going forward."
Believe me she got a "serious" talk in the car about respect in school. She was calmly and firmly told by her father and myself exactly what would happen the next time we heard she was not trying her best to respect the class. We let her know we had eyes in there and would be talking to the teacher to make sure she was being polite. Needless to say, she has gotten "extra sticks" for good behavior ever since. Was I really upset about the behavior? No. But she has to feel like we feel it's important and that her teacher is a valuable authority figure to set our daughter's school behavior going forward.
I think at this age, tying it all in is great. Later, when he's older and needing the grades for real tests and college etc, it will be separate, right now is the time to learn all the behavior stuff. We had grades for performance averaged in with work so they could bring down our over all grade when I was in elementary school.
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J.R. answers from San Diego on February 19, 2011
Just to clarify, she hasn't already lowered his grades for talking? She is notifying you that she will in the future?
I personally have no problem with points being deducted during a test for talking. If he were caught cheating in upper grades or in college, he would be given a failing grade. This is just a less severe form of that consequence. She is giving you and him plenty of warning. At this age, his grades aren't going to be on any sort of permanent record, so I don't think it's necessarily bad that she's doing this.
My main concern would be is this an immediate enough consequence to teach your son not to do this? Will a third grader really care about getting a lower score on a test because of bad behavior? Maybe he would, I don't know.
But I have to say, I always hated hearing people tell me that I wasn't living up to my potential when I was growing up. "Potential" what and according to whom? How do they measure such things? Just because a child is "smart," does that mean if they're not perfect, they are not "living up to his potential"? If the teacher feels that your son should be a classroom leader (what does that even mean?), she should try fostering that in a more positive way.
3 moms found this helpful
H.W. answers from Portland on February 19, 2011
You don't say how old your son is, but perhaps the teacher explained that there would be a point deduction for talking during tests to discourage cheating. If it were me, I'd ask the teacher about this, and how they came up with their policy before making any decisions. If this had happened to my son and he knew beforehand (if the teacher had previously explained it), I would expect that he knew what the consequence was and made the choice to accept the lowered point grade.
Don't forget, too, that part of grading is based on performance, so that may have factored in. Depending on the school, some of the punitive options you presented make the problem someone else's, so to speak: the child doesn't follow directions, and these punishments of staying in after recess, not attending field trips, etc. require that someone else watch him. Some schools have teachers rotate for recess duty so that they can take breaks (should the teacher have to miss a break because the child wasn't following directions?, and where do you put the child who doesn't go on the field trip?). Being sent to the office and being made the principal's problem is also problematic, one because it is likely reserved for more serious acting out and second, because principals are very busy. As for the phone call home-- some parents are hard to get a hold of, and this isn't the sort of thing a teacher wants to do-- to have to call a parent for something minor. Therefore, this may be the preferred option, to let your son deal with the consequence through his grade so that it doesn't impact others. I am not saying any of this is ideal (ideally, schools would be better funded so many of these dilemmas weren't an issue) but overall, do we want to spend that money having teachers more or less punitively babysitting, or actually teaching? Just some thoughts.
3 moms found this helpful
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