Discipline - What Else Can I Take Away?

If taking away isn't working try a new tactic. I am finding with my kindergarten boy responds to positivity. I'll promise him if he gets good behavior marks for the day I will let him ride his bike when he gets home. If he gets it 3 days in a row I might take him to the park. I get so excited for him when he does well and we high five and do a little dance. I gas him up when I drop him off everyday by reminding him the rules or having him say them to me and reminding him how proud I am when he does a good job and how much fun it will be to ride bikes or go to the park.

You can take everything away from him but if you don't get to the root of the problem then it's for naught. Sounds like he needs to be evaluated for Sensory Processing Disorder, Auditory Processing Disorder and a visual dysfunction. It's usually one or all of the senses causing non compliance, not focusing, listening, following directions, pushing other kids, etc.......Go to a SIPT certified OT and find out what deficits you are dealing with. It can be motor planning issues, visual discrimination, vestibular, proprioception but most likely all of these things. If the teacher is calling in Sept, you have many years of dealing with a possibile learning disability. Get the school to do a psycho/ed on him as well so they can get a plan in place for him but you still need outside help. It's not a phase, and they don't grow out of it, they grow into it. Good book to learn from is Disconnected Kids. And btw take TV and video games out of his life permanently.

It's not working!!! It is too far away from the incident, the school needs to the ones doing the disciplining for these actions, such as no recess, time away from the classroom, no gym or some other class he loves. They might even need to do a behavior plan if the teacher is calling you at work. This is not just a simple issue anymore. You are giving him way too much time out, he is only 5. A behavior plan with the full support of the principle and teacher and any other staff needed will give you the support you need. It will also be able to keep everyone on the same page about what to look for as triggers for the misbehavior.

I didn't see your kinder student in trouble question, so I don't know what your son is doing that the teacher is calling for... I always take a look at sleep and eating first. My kids don't do well if there is a deficiency of either, or if they trade the snacks that I send for sugary snacks from school mates.

I'd set up a meeting with the teacher and find out exactly what's going on. Then I would talk to my kid. Amazing things can happen when you talk to your kids and listen to what they have to say. I sit down with my kids when something like this happens and we problem solve it together. We write a list of solutions that both of us come up with (all ideas are welcome) and then we talk about which ones will work and which ones won't work and why.

In my experience spanking and taking things away just makes kids resentful and it doesn't address the problem or provide a solution. Of course it sets up a "no tolerance" sort of environment but that only lasts until the kids are sneaky enough to not get caught or old enough not not be affected.

You might check out the book "How to Talk so Your Kids will Listen and Listen so Your Kids Will Talk." Good luck~

In my experience positive reinforcement works much better than taking things away. As Tracy K described give him some special time with you when his days go well. Latch onto the smallest bit of improvement to reward.

My granddaughter, who is 11, was having difficulty getting her chores and homework done. My daughter, at the suggestion of their counselor, told her she could do something special when she'd successfully completed chores and homework for a week. My granddaughter chose going on a bike ride with her mother. It is working. Now.....that the rains have started they have to decide on something different. On the plus side, my granddaughter has gotten into a habit of doing those things without always having the bike ride. (no ride when it's raining, mom has a migraine sort of situation)

I also agree with having a talk with your son. Talk with him while expressing concern with him having difficulties. Be sympathetic. Tell him you want his input into solving this problem. Ask him what he thinks should be done. Above all do not lecture or issue ultimatums. Just a quiet collaborative conversation.

Talk with his teacher about what he is doing and why she thinks he's misbehaving. Ask her for suggestions. Consider having the discipline be related to the misbehavior.

Is this the first time you've had 45 minutes to get thru a timeout? If not, timeouts aren't working for him. My grandchildren did not respond to timeouts. They just made them angrier and took the focus away from the lesson to be learned.

Again, at the suggestions of a counselor, my daughter started time in their room for misbehavior at home. They could play but could not come out until they could say they were sorry for what they'd done. When they did come out and offered an at least quasi apology she gave them a hug and restated the rule. Usually they gave a sincere apology after that.

The counselor said that for misbehavior at school, leave the discipline to the school. By the time they come home, the incident should be over with. I suggest that the added consequence when they get home keeps the negative atmosphere going which makes it even harder for the child to focus on being good. The negative thoughts overwhelm the positive wish to do good. Talk to the teacher about this possibility.

I would also talk with the after school care person and find out how he behaves there and what techniques they use that keeps the kids on track. If a child misbehaves (and does yours?) what do they do?
Talk with them, asking for information in a positive manner. If you express the need to also punish at home then they may be reluctant to tell you about the normal misbehavior after school.

Both of my grandchildren's teachers and after school care professionals have told their parents about their concerns for behavior. They have not expected that the child be punished at home. They are only giving the parent information at the beginning. If the behavior becomes a chronic problem they discuss possible ways of handling it with the parent.

Taking away things is just one way to handle it. I suggest it's not effective for most children because they can do without and it's totally unrelated to their behavior. It doesn't teach anything about appropriate behavior. Neither do time outs. Time outs work when the child needs to be separated from misbehavior so that they can get a fresh start. When a timeout happens hours after the misbehavior it just feels like punishment and doesn't teach anything. It does create anger on the part of the child and when he doesn't comply anger for the parents.

When my son was in awayschool I had a hard and fast rule:

He only got in trouble ONCE.

It not only seemed highly unfair to me, but getting him in trouble TWICE also only accomplished 2 things:

1) He wouldn't tell me what was going on (so we couldn't actually *work* on improvements)

2) Nothing/loss of trust. Rather like punishing a dog after the fact. It just doesn't WORK. The only thing it accomplished was #1

Now... if what happened during the day involved another student, I WOULD have him write a letter apologizing... but that's not punishment. That's part of setting things RIGHT.

IMHO, my role wasn't the punishment part (he got that right then and there) my part was to help something not to happen in the first place (talking about it, working out strategies/things to do NEXT time)... and in setting things right

Taking away stuff isn't working. Have you tried to talk to him? Maybe there is something going on at school that he hasn't shared. My kids have had teachers who yelled and screamed at the kids when no one else was listening and all the parents thought they were the nicest people because when we saw them they were so nice; I honestly thought my child was having trouble adjusting but no it was the teacher.

Taking things away only works for so long. Kids either become desensitized to always having things taken away or you run out of stuff to take away! I would find out what is going on at school that is causing the trouble. Is he bored? Is he hungry or tired? If he is in all day kindergarten that can be a long day for a little guy if he isn't used to it. Perhaps he is having a personality conflict with his teacher? There could be a multitude of very fixable problems once you pinpoint exactly what it is. I am a huge fan of Love and Logic (www.loveandlogic.com). The discipline strategies are proactive and use natural consequences to fit the infraction made by the child. I always offer my kids (ages 2 and 3) 2 choices that are both ok with me and let them decide. This way I am giving them some control and it makes it easier for them to see how they messed up (if they messed up that is. I find giving them choices eliminates 95% of all conflicts and power struggles.) Check out the website. They have a ton of books for all age groups and also offer workshops that are invaluable too. Good luck!
A.

Don't take away! Add.....He will pull weeds, clean the bathroom, clean his room, take out all the trash, ect. You get the idea. He needs to do some work!
L.

IMO the teacher should be handling and setting consequences for misbehaving at the time the offense occurs. I would certainly talk to my child if the teacher is calling but I would not punish at home in any way. Consequences should be immediate and fit the crime so to speak.
Like some of the other posters mentioned... I too would probably set up a reward system for good behavior.

That sounds really frustrating. Starting kindergarten can be a very tough transition. My daughter started kindergarten this year too and while she's well behaved there, we are seeing more challenging behaviors at home. I didn't see your other post either, but I would suggest an approach that's less negative and focuses more on the positive. Sometimes when you get in that negative downward spiral it's time to take a step back and try a new approach.

I second the book another poster recommended: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk. I probably need to reread it myself. It is a great book (easy fairly quick read) with good strategies for communicating with your kids or anyone really. I especially appreciate it's respectful approach for dealing with children.

Back to Basics Discipline by Janet Campbell Matson. You cant' expect the mildest consequences possible (time outs and removals) to kick in and suddenly get a difficult five year old in shape. You need the big guns, and he needs to do some chores after you use the big guns. He's a big boy. There's a lot more to it than that in the book, including positive and nice things he needs, but I can understand why he's not stopping the behavior with the current system, and I wouldn't continue with it.

If he's comfortable fighting against a time out, he's not afraid of a time out, therefore he'll never avoid having one by not doing the behavior that causes it. If his health and comprehension are all normal, you need to firm up. He'll feel happier when he's acting better. We used that book and have no behavior issues with our kids. They need virtually no discipline. So technically we're tougher than most, but actually, we're almost never disciplining. I know plenty of kids raised this way, including myself, my siblings, my spouse, and effective early discipline does NOT backfire later on. Myth.

Time to try something new. I agree with Tracy K. Try focusing on the positive and see if things improve. My son is having issues at school as well so we are in the same boat. I have found that positive combined with big loss are working for us. As an example, I told my son that if he had 4 days in a row of "great day" at school then he could go to McDonalds for lunch on Saturday. However, yesterday at school he refused to bring home his homework so he lost his time to play outside last evening. He clearly understands this method, he can get the reward if he does great and he feels the disappointment of not making the right choice. He has already received the rewards of previous work and now knows which choice he wants to make. :) Good Luck, there is no right answer you just have to keep trying

The more you take away, the more he will act out. He needs consequences, but he also needs positive reinforcement. The goal is to teach him impulse control, not just punishment b/c he doesn't learn to control himself that way.

My son was having a horrible two weeks at kindergarten. We kept doing the punishment and consequences too. It was really eating at him and he felt he couldn't improve. so we gave him ideas on how to control his impulses during the day and told him if he got good marks that day, we would give him a special treat. He did great so we got him an ice cream. We then talked to him about how easy it was to be good and continue the behavior, and if he could last the rest of the week, we would give him is favorite toy car back. It is more helpful to set goals and positive rewards.

Dr. Sears is an expert in this field and he has some excellent advice:
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior

Taking away is not working. Maybe set up a system where he works to earn TV time, this way it is not seens as taken away and then he has to earn it back just have him earn the TV time. It has a more positive spin on it. No trouble in school that day 30 mins TV time added to the chart, he can either use it that day or save up if he wants to watch a movie at another time. Time outs longer then 15 minutes never seem to work, usually then I say outside time play now to get out an energy OR if tired it is quiet time reading books in bed to regroup.

I think a lot of kindergarteners have a hard time with adjusting mainly due to the new rules and new structure. To me one of the best things you can do is every rule they have you have and the structure they have you have (morning start time, snack time, free play time, lunch time, free play time, organized fun time like a game or project you do together, quiet time like reading/looking at books, free play time, dinner time, bed time). If too much is always changing the little ones mind just can not handle it. Write the rules down so that they can be seen every day (like on posterboard and put in an area he goes by a lot).

Spanking is something I have only pulled out twice, I hate it and I really stay away from it at all cost because I feel it teaches hitting gets you what you want not how to respect and obey. Rules being reminded over and over again but done in a sit down talk it through with child and ask the child to repeat what you said (obviously in their own words, do not expect them to mimic every word).

I hope you find something that works for your son! I think this age is tough because they are trying to figure out who they are, what they can do or get away with, how to treat others that they see every day in the same socal setting. Keep at it Mom.

I guess I'd try to talk to him, see WHY he's getting in trouble? or maybe visit the class, see what's going on when you aren't there? Discuss positive reinforcement - if you tell him he'll get ice cream if he's good for x days and he screws it up and doesn't get it, that's punishment too. maybe an earlier bed time is needed - you say he's been tired since school started - perhaps he's acting out because he's tired?

We use positive discipline (technically positive discipline is NOT using rewards and praise). I have never done time outs, punishments, taken things away, given rewards and try really hard to avoid praise. We try modeling appropriate behaviors, setting him up for success, explaining what is expected and then actually expecting it and talking to DS (currently 5-1/2). I am not sure what a major offense would be for a kindergartner?

In kindergarten, food and sleep can still be major factors affecting mood and behavior. Have you brain stormed WITH him about solutions to the problem? In our house, DS is more heavily invested in solutions he is a part of and does much better when he feels we are a team, rather than it being him against me.

What else can you take away? His comfort.

If the other things have failed, then corporal punishment is next. Corporal punishment? Spanking.

For some kids, the things you mentioned don't matter. If you want a positive impact on his behavior, you may have to have a negative impact on his bottom.

Good luck to you and yours.

Positive discipline.
For every good day at school he brings home a smiley sticker from school and gets something at home, we used chocolate milk.
He behaved in church for it and at school.
If need be supply the stickers, our teacher had a notepad she just sent a big smile home on.

Have him work towards a goal,
Smileys at school, chocolate milk at home,
3 smileys, 3 chocolates and on Saturday you all go do something fun. Bowling, swimming
Then in two weeks 4 smileys, 4 chocolates, and he gets his SAturday prize. Maybe have a friend over.

Well... I've gone and done extreme parenting and gotten pretty good results. You have to start from scratch. That means you take away EVERYTHING including privileges and leave only "necessary to live" stuff. Food, clothing, shelter, love, family contact and interaction.

This means you have to strip down his bedroom and pack up everything except his clothes. And I mean everything.

He must earn back everything. The way he does that is through trust, and the way he earns back trust is through good behavior. As he gets through designated periods of time with good behavior and allowances for minor slip-ups, he gets to earn a privilege back. So maybe he can first earn back going out some place special that you've taken him but had to stop taking him... maybe a play date you had to stop. If he continues with good behavior, at the end of the next designated time period he gets maybe a favorite toy back he can start accepting birthday party invitations again.

He needs to have motivation and positive reinforcement. If he has something to work toward, rather than constantly having things taken away, just take it all away and there you go starting from scratch.

Set up a chart. That helps immensely. He can earn things back if he does chores, which would include things like "taking a bath at bed time" and "obey Mommy the first time she asks you to do something" and "make your bed" and "brush your teeth" and "will have a positive behavior report from school" and things like that.

What I would say since I don't know your kids is pick something different each time. When they start screaming like a banshee you found the right thing. Every kid has something they think they can't live without. They will scream like the world will end when you figure it out.

Oh if he loves after school care ask the teachers what he enjoys there. You will probably have to recreate it at home but once he is hooked you have control again. :)

Been here, done this. Here's a suggestion that has worked for us in the past. Try setting up a Behavior Chart with his teacher.
Give 4 or 5 desirable behaviors like "Stay in Seat", "Keep hands to myself", etc. Divide it into the school days; maybe even divide it into morning and afternoon (this might help track when he is going off course during the day). Have the teacher give him a sticker or a star for each goal he accomplishes through the day. Even better, let her call him up and put the sticker on himself. Make his goal for the first few days easy, like he needs to get 2 stickers in a day. If he accomplishes this, give him a reward - it can be anything like an extra 15 minutes of TV, a little extra dessert, an extra book at bedtime, something you know that will be a "reward" in his eyes. After a few days, step up his goal for the day to 3 stickers in day and keep increasing as he achieves his goals for a period of time. Make a big deal out of his accomplishments (the teacher should, too).
As we have been told by teachers and therapists, attention is attention and if he's getting it with the negative behavior more than with the positive, then he will continue the negative just for the attention. Whereas if you minimize the attention for the negative behavior and make a big deal out of the positive behavior, hopefully he will seek out more positive reactions. I'm not saying don't punish for bad days, but find a balance where your reactions to the negative behavior are minimized and your reactions to the positive behavior are maximized.
Easier said than done, I know. But if you are consistent with this approach and you have a teacher that is willing to work with you on it, then it could make a big difference.
Good luck!

I just want to wish you good luck - you have had lots of good advice already As I don't know you or your son I cannot give you a miracle cure-all. What works for 1 doesn't work for another. My son is hard headed but you have to learn "what" gets through to them. My son was always in trouble since pre-K. He is about to be 12 now and he is still getting in constant trouble at school and at home. The Dr diagnosed ADHD. He takes meds but honestly I still don't think that is the whole truth of his condition.
M. F

What did it for me was my daughter actually watched me throw a toy away out the window when we were driviing. It wasn't anything big a mcdonalds toy. You put something in the trash so he knows he will never see it again. If he knows he is getting it back then sometimes it doesnt work. But wait a minute, is he getting in trouble in school and is the teacher punishing him? You should not be punishing him after his teacher punishes him. I bet there is more to it. Why is he actiing up in class? Why is the teacher having a hard time controlling him? Is he bored, is he having a hard time sitting still. Lets change some behavoirs tohelp the kid. Breakfast should contain no corn syrup or yellow colloring. Some say a protein is best but Toast and cheerios worked for me. What is he getting for snack? Gold fish while yummy the multi colored ones should be kept away from. Lunch, I would not give him fruit juices stick to water. No sugary snacks. Ok now that is starting the teacher is going to have her mark on him because he is disturbing the class alot. See if he can be given busy work. If he is finishing is work on As then give him some Bs. its the beginning of the year so they are just reviewing anyway. The teacher can allow him to get up and stand behind his chair if she puts him on the side of the room. I think the red yellow green works most efficient for kindergarden. Green is good, yellow is warning(usually in kindergarden they get yellow twice) then red. If they get red they miss recess. If it happens he gets 3 reds in a week he needs to go sit in the principles office. You can help him by helping him learn his cues when he is getting excited or getting out of control. He might not be able to see it yet. maybe you can make up a code word the teacher can use to help him, that way you are not getting the other kids involved. Say like hey marshmellow whats going on over there. Its a warning that he is getting out of control. Hope this helps. Also get him back in something outside of school. Tball is great for his age.

Read anything you can find by John Rosemond, PhD. He's brilliant and a family therapist who is easy to read. His go-to recommendation is to remove your child from The Garden of Eden. Take everything away. I mean strip his room down to his bed and a lamp. Lay his clothing out for the next day and he will have access to things as he needs them. If he needs a pencil to do his homework, he needs to use his words and request it. When he's done, it goes away.

Dinner, quiet reading and then bed until he can prove that his behavior can improve. He's telling you that something is very wrong, but before you can address that you need to nip the behavior.

As he demonstrates consistently appropriate behavior (3 or more consecutive days), he may earn back one item or one priviledge. Yes, picking out your clothing is a priviledge. If he acts up, it's gone.

I assure you that the first week will be a nightmare, but he will get the message. When it sinks-in that only appropriate behavior will be rewarded, he'll change his tune very quickly. If it doesn't sink in, time to call a professional and find out why such a young child is acting-out.

Take away everything. Not one or two.... everything. No tv, no electronics. If someone in the house wants to watch tv, then kiddo needs to go to his room til it's done. He has to be so bored that he wants to behave. The teacher needs to buck up and own her classroom. She needs to figure out, just like you, what discipline is best and most effective.
Best of luck to you!
Mom of 3 boys ages 7, 5, and 3