Discipline at shops-What Do You Suggest?

Yes ma'am I applaud you! I too am a very big proponent to children minding their manners in public and voice my decisions when needed. I am a mother of 4 very respectful boys (18, 16, 15 & 7) and they too ask other children to behave when being disruptive or potentially distructive.

I recently had the opportunity to correct a young lady (about 10-12) in a Wal-Mart parking lot that was having an all out coniption fit at her mother. I do not know this child or her parent, but did not think that it would hurt to assist. I rather loudly asked her to get herself under control and to not disrespect her mother again in public as she was doing. This child was so shocked that I had the audacity to call her out that she intended to continue her screaming fit. I turned to her mother and asked her permission (rather quickly I must add) to continue to correct her behavior.

My 16 year old son (6'8" - 285 lbs) stood behind her mother for assurance that I could help...

This young lady was upset because her mother wouldn't or couldn't buy a DVD of some sort. I explained that children that do not behave in public should be disciplined and she needed to get herself under control or her mother should tear her butt up. Regardless of the reality of the "threat" it shocked her so much that she dried up her tears and quit the screaming. Then my son stated that she should apologize to her mother for acting that way. The child complied and they went on their merry way.

Other adults standing around were amazed that I took on the task of correcting another child in public and I talked to a few of them for a couple of minutes. The old philosophy that it takes a Village to raise a child stands true today. If you can take just a quick moment to correct a bad behavior (especially for a child you do not have a relationship with) it may wake a child up just enough to learn something that will help them down the road.

Just a little something I learned from my teachers - way back when - that still applies today, even more than ever in this world we live in.

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As a former teacher as well you and I both know that it takes a village. I never hesitate to call down children who are acting inappropriately and especially if they are endangering others or themselves. If the parents get upset, I remind myself of two things: one- the danger aspect and two- chances are I may never see them again so what difference does it make if they are angry with me. It matters not how much money she spent- we have a responsibility to the downfall of our society and that includes rotten and unruly children. Go forth and be bold with your words of redirection!

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We are all so scared of offeding or upsetting others...even when they are in the wrong. Being a mother of 4 boys, if I were in a situation like that I would have been far more agressive about the situation. There is no imaginable excuse for allowing your children to be bratts, and bratts are always the fault of the parent. It is not the kid's fault that he acts out when he's being neglected, abused or ignored. Poor lady was probably totally overwhelmed by her own children.

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i would have tripped the boys.

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I probably would have done the same as you, but then when the behavior didn't stop I would've told the store clerk/manager that I was leaving and why. I think it is the store management's responsibility to ensure that their customers can shop in a safe environment, and if they don't do that, I won't shop there. I do not feel comfortable telling another mother how to parent her children. I also tend to avoid confrontation and speaking to a mother about her children's behavior is I believe just asking for one. But that is just me. I do not take my children clothes shopping for this reason, unless the clothes are for them, and then I take them one at a time. It is difficult to plan and I do tend to miss the good sales but I just can't control all three of them in a store so I won't do it. I guess not all moms realize their limitations.

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Dear A.,

I always believe that it is best to be straightforward and honest -- with grace. It would have been appropriate for you to approach the mother and say, "Excuse me. I was almost knocked down by one of your boys. I asked him to stop running, because I'm sure that he did not realize that his running created a safety problem for me and other shoppers." Hopefully the woman would at least be courteous, and perhaps you would be making her aware of something she had not thought about. Either way, I would be inclined to add, "You might also want to know that both of your sons have kicked their sister, at least twice."

It is a shame that the store owners did not feel it appropriate to ask the woman to manage her children, regardless of how much she bought. It is their responsibility to set an expectation for the behaviors allowed in their store. Again, if said with a caring attitude, it might be helpful for the mother to hear the store owner say, "We want you as well as ALL of our other patrons to have a good shopping experience. Will you please ask your boys to stay near you and not to run in the store. It is dangerous for them and for our other guests."

Your comments about the daughter are not detailed enough to know if her behavior was, in fact, out of line. In other words, how old was she? Would it have been possible for her to purchase any of the jewelry she was trying on? Assuming that she was too young to be a purchaser, it would have been good for the store owners to take a position standing directly beside her, letting her know that she had SOME supervision. If she was too young to be a customer of the jewelry, the shop owner could have asked the girl if she was shopping for the jewelry as a gift. Both of these actions would probably be enough to encourage her not to "play" with the jewelry, and might at least attracted the attention of the mother. If the girl was underage to be a legitimate buyer, it would be perfectly acceptable for the shop owner to ask her mother not to let her daughter play with the merchandise.

My comment is NOT a criticism of you; it is simply an observation about protocols of human behavior that are evident almost everywhere. Our society (at least in the U.S.) has gotten to the point that we, as a whole, are unwilling to take a stand, particularly on important matters that include MANNERS and public behaviors. I believe that "good" people are unwilling to take a stand on these issues because, over the past 40 years, we have seen spiraling (inappropriate) litigation citing violation of the "rights" of those who exhibit the rude behaviors. Because we TOLERATE undisciplined children in public and in our SCHOOLS, I think it has led to tolerating rude behavior by adults. For example, look at the rude and boorish way that some people treat service personnel -- shop keepers, waiters/waitresses, hotel staff and sales personnel. (In fact, conduct a personal pole; I think you will observe that the only service personnel that generally receive good treatment are those who deliver a personal services that might be messed up if they were treated poorly, like hair stylists, etc.)

We have, sadly, become a society focused on "ME" to the exclusion of the rights and feelings of others. In your example, YOU had a right to shop in the store without being placed in jeopardy of falling. The shop owners have a right to not have their store ransacked by unruly children. Unfortunately, we have done this to ourselves simply by lowering our expectations for behaviors and NOT speaking out (with kindness) against such actions. Also, a major indicator of the "ME-mentality" are the frivolous lawsuits that many people endorse (it is not uncommon to hear others say, "You should SUE them for that.") It would be lovely to hear people say, "I would hope you wouldn't take the courts time and energy for THAT!" On the whole, we do not interact with neighbors, we seek anonymity, and we have not taken interest in elections so that judges hear cases and award judgments to people who shouldn't be in court in the first place.

As a former teacher, I would be surprised if you didn't agree that the rights of ALL the well-behaved children in the classroom, who get their learning disrupted by the distractions of the children with discipline problems, are imposed upon. Unfortunately, as a society we have not taken a stand for the rights of the MANY. We simply buckle to the perceived rights of the FEW that are ME-focused and self-centered.

I do not know if our society's focus on self WILL change, but it cannot change until the more people realize that we cannot remain detached from others, turn an indifferent eye to elected officials and be silently tolerant of bad behavior - whether in public, in schools, and most important, in our homes. We do not have to be discourteous or rude ourselves to affect change. But I do believe that we are going to have to start caring more about others, be willing to accept some small injustices ourselves without filing a lawsuit and try, try, try to return to some standards and expectations of "appropriate" behaviors. It probably goes without my saying that I believe these standards are taught by the Bible:

Mark 12:31 - "The second is this, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

Exodus 20:12 - "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you."

1 Corinthians 6:1-8 -"If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers! The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers."

The instructions that God has given us for excellent lives are VERY available to ANYONE in a free country that takes the initiative to obtain and read a Bible. Then of course, there is the challenge to act accordingly following these guidelines. But just imagine the differences in our world if more people actually embraced and acted in accordance with the above three verses, alone.

I am sorry for your bad experience, A.. But next time, speak up.

Sympathetic,
K.

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I would've said something.. There are so many kids out there that are not well-behaved and these parents just let their kids run around and be disruptive.. I look at it this way-- if they are being disruptive, and the parents don't care, then I'll say something.. I've done it before. I saw a little girl running (playing chicken) on a busy street waiting for the bus.. Her mom wasn't there (I still have never seen her).. I yelled at the girl to get out of the street (I had to yell so she could hear me).. She called me the B word, and then said I wasn't her mother.. (mind you she's about 9 yrs old!!).. I told her if her mother was out here keeping an eye on her, I wouldn't have to act like her mom. I have also told kids in stores not to run because they could fall down and get hurt (I make sure I say it loud enough where the parent can hear)..The parent usually will take the cue and keep their kids closer to them....

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I usually say something to the kid. (Please do not run in here. In a firm, but respectful teacher voice.) If the mother is in earshot, I make sure that I say it where she can hear it. Then, just explain, perfect excuse, is that an elderly lady is in here and you might cause someone to get hurt. But, in reality, it is the owner's responsibility to say something. If that doesn't work, if I feel it is really a dangerous situation, then I would ask the mother. If you use your own fear of falling down, it makes it more agreeable for her. But, nonetheless, she will most likely be embarrassed (a few just get annoyed with you, but most don't) and will deal with it after she leaves and will hopefully be better prepared next time. If I can ignore it, I do. But, sometimes you have to say something. Sometimes, like me at times, you don't even know your own kids are doing it. You're off in your own little shopping world.

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A few thoughts...

1.) Hands down, it should be a priority of a parent to keep the children well-behaved in public. Period. The mom was irresponsible and rude. There is no excuse for the mother's disregard for the store, its owner's, and other patrons. We can only imagine how out of control they are at home...

2.) Yes, she was making a large purchase. Perhaps she is a frequent customer and the owners did not want to offend her or lose the sale by asking her to better control her children... Perhaps the slow economy played into their decision to overlook it. However, it is the store's legal responsibility to ensure that it other patrons (you) and the offending party (the children) are not injured on its premises. The store owner/employees were irresponsible and rude for allowing a situation that made you worry for your safety. They should have approached the mother and asked her to control the children.

3.) Keeping in mind that it takes a village (to raise a child)... I would have no problem approaching a parent and saying "I'm sorry, but I have a medical condition and the way in which your children are running through the store is making me concerned for my safety. Do you think you could settle them?"

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It takes a village to raise a child. Asking for common courtesies for safety is not the same as disciplining someone else's child. You just have to be careful how you say it. I wouldn't have said anything to the girl (clerk's issue) but I would have to the runners. I like how you said you knew he was a polite boy. If you know the store manager well, you might mention the situation to him and how uncomfortable you, as well as others, were. Hopefully, they'll put up a sign about not leaving children unattended or unruly.

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Common courtesy. Exactly.
If unsupervised children are doing something unappropriate or potentially dangerous, I never hesitate to step in. You don't have to be mean to let them know what they're doing is wrong. If they don't listen, then you talk with the parents.
A few days ago we were at chic filet and I was the only parent in the playroom. A little boy grabbed my son's arm and tried to give him one of those twist burn things. I reached out and grabbed his shoulder and said very firmly. "No!. Don't do that. That hurts!" If it hadn't been my son, I still would have stepped in. If I don't--how do I know someone else will?

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When I witness children behaving like that, I get in their faces and tell them very quietly and sternly, "Go to your mother and stay there!" They usually run away and stick close to the adult they came with. Periodically, I cut my eyes at them just to let them know that I haven't forgotten and that I am watching. They stay put. I have a little fun with that. I've also been known to announce (for the parent and child to hear) "Slow down please" in that teacher-talking-to-a-group-of-kids kind of way. It's indirect, but it usually gets a good response from the parents.

I haven't yet run into children who rebel or parents who protest (when they are around to actually witness it), and I do not look forward to that day.

I definitely think that you should have said something. This wasn't a large store. Not that it matters a whole lot, but it makes a bit of a difference when you're in close quarters like that. If the kid gets close to you, you have more than a right to make mention of it...even directly to the parent.

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Hi A.,
The owner could do what I have seen in doctor's and dentist office and that is post a sign saying something to the effect of "Parents,please control your children" or post something that places the liability back on the parents. I don't own a business but I do know that there is nothing one person can buy in a day that would supplement a lawsuit filed by a customer who gets hurt because of rambunctious kids.
S.

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This is in the hands of the shop keeper. He should have said something to the lady. They probably didn't mind the daughter trying on the jewelry but the boys needed to be reined in. That is the mom's job and the shop keeper should have said something to her.

I find it very offensive when I am out and people talk to me about my children's behavior (only because they do not know me or my boys. Bad behavior in ones persons eyes may be exemplary in another's). I have 3 very active boys who just cannot keep their hands to themselves. I absolutely would not let them run around in a store, but they would be touching everything. I DO think it is unreasonable to do that kind of shopping with children. I realize not everyone can hire a sitter and it can be difficult (speaking from experience) to shop and control kids at the same time.

Maybe something like saying nicely to the boys walking feet please, or lets use our inside voice may have helped the situation. But it is in the shop keepers rights to say something to the kids and the mom.

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I was at the customer service area at Walmart and one mother allowed her kids to throw a frizbe-like toy and it hit me on the back of the head while I had been waiting in line. I was furious! I suffer from migraines and chronic headaches and I sure didn't need any more head pain! I turned around with an evil look and told her to learn CONTROL HER KIDS! I kept rubbing my head so she knew that they really hurt me. She took the toy away and controlled them. Sometimes you just have to tell people because they don't know any better.

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I have been in retail for over 35 years. I always have told children "You may not run in any store". I also ask children to "look with their eyes and not their hands". "If they would like assistance, I will be happy to help them."

If they did not have an adult with them, I ask "where are your parents?" If they say they do not know, I ask them to "go and find them or give me their parents phone number so I can tell them their children are lost."

I do not mind well behaved children who are really looking or interested in what is going on. If they are being disruptive, I feel sorry for them that they have been dragged there, but they do not have a right to disrupt business. You are correct, it is very dangerous. Their parents should have sent them with a book or activity.

In our neighborhood, we taught all of the children to "always walk inside." "Walk with your hands behind your back". "Use an inside voice." And "look with your eyes."

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I must say that I am honestly surprised at the responses. The legal liability does fall on the store owner, but that is not who I would expect to remedy the situation. I believe it is your responsibility to address the children. As a mother, I work hard to teach my children to behave, but I know that I cannot watch them every second of the day and I expect others to address improper behavior if I miss it. If I see something going on that I think the mother needs to be aware of, I will let the mother know, in a polite manner. I would hope that other mothers would feel okay letting me know when something needs to be addressed. The only reason the store owner or management needs to be involved is if I have a suggestion to help prevent future problems, such as suggesting a sign or kid's corner. I am really disappointed that we have become a society who puts the responsibility on everyone except the mother and ourselves. If you don't act, who will?

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I would not say anything about knocking another person over. It might give them ideas. I think its the stores responsibility to keep people safe. Thats all people including the kids. As far as tring on jewerly...again its up to the store to tell them to stop or move the jewerly away from the kids. I dont think its right and its dissapointing that parents are raising there kids to be free, there not consirned at all if there chrilden will be liked, honerable kids. Just as long as the parents dont have to be the bad guys. Very dissapointing. I would tell the parent before telling the kids. Or even ask the clerk whos kids are those?

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I don't think it's your responsibility to discipline unruly children in the shop. That responsibility belongs to the manager of the store. It really doesn't matter how much the mother purchased, had one of her children caused another shopper to have an accident the store manager would be held liable. Next time, go to the manager and complain and leave it up to him/her to approach the mother.

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I would talk to the owners about it and suggest they post signs saying that children must be supervised at all times. That way, if kids are running around and being unruly, they can tell the parent "please supervise your child(ren) or you will be asked to leave". I understand they might not want to lose that woman's business, especially in this economy, but they just might lose your business and other people's business, because I certainly wouldn't want to shop at a store where kids are allowed to run wild.
If the situation arises again, I would go over to the mother and say "excuse me, but your child just about knocked me over when he/she ran past me, and I'm concerned he might hurt me b/c I have osteoporosis" and leave it at that. She will either control her kids or get mad at you =)

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Hi A.
It is unfortunate that some children are allowed to behave that may outside the home- you can imagine what it is like in the home......
You can always ask the management at the store to speak to the mom of these children- or they can put up signs in the store requiring children to behave......
good luck and blessings

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I totally understand where you're coming from, as far as children running over other people's rights. It is not fair to be shopping in a store where someone's kids are about to run over people and knock them over, with total disregard for other's feelings or rights. I don't know if the parent was aware of their ill behavior or not. Some parents seem to be totally oblivious to their childrens' behavior, while others are just overwhelmed. I have 3 children, and I sometimes have to take all 3 of them with me while I go shopping. As a parent, I would rather some one correct my child than correct me. I'm usually aware of what my child(ren) is/are doing, but would welcome someone else stepping in to tell THEM to behave. I think that shows the child that there is someone else dissaproving of their behavior, rather than judging the parent. Of course, if they seemed totally oblivious to what their children were doing, it might be totally fair to speak out to the parent. When the parent is aware, however, it's insulting, as they are probably trying to do something about their children's behavior (of course, they should probably try and leave the store and come back later, but we don't know what her situation was). I understand where you're coming from. It annoys me when I see someone else's children running free as chimpanzees in public. It makes me mad, because it shows my kids that they can act that way if they want to. I don't need any more encouragement for my children to act up, but more discouragement - - input from other adults. I was at an HEB about a year ago, and my kids and I were at the claw machine. A kid just showed up out of the blue with no parents, and was trying to take over the machine we were at. He was also trying to steal the balls my kids had gotten from the machine. You bet I spoke boldly to him. Someone has to. If enough adults spoke to these types of kids sternly enough, I bet you we'd have a much safer and less self-centered society. I do think that other adults besides the children have the right, and even the obligation, to say things to these kids who think rules do not apply to them. That would infuriate me if another child came up to one of my children and pinched them. You bet I'd say something, regardless of where the parent is. That is totally inappropriate, and someone has to stand up against this unruly behavior. Kudos to the earlier responder!

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Hi A.,

Well, I have to tell you I live in San Antonio, have two girls and cannot imagine letting them act like what you were describing....because as someone at one point in my life without kids I hated going anywhere with out of control moms & kids.

I must share an experience a couple of months ago at a Ross store. I was shopping during Holy week and there were alot of people with "kids" (brats) that were not being supervised, they were all over the store, running thru the rods, strowing the toys and just being annoying. Finally, the manager guy came over the loud speaker and said..." all children under the age of 14 are to be supervised by their parents at all times. Swinging on the racks, playing with the toys or being in the changing rooms unsupervised will not be tolerated. If you feel you cannot control your children we ask that you return at another time."

Me and this other woman next to me were like "Yeah!!!!"

I think it is not rude for you to speak up when others are not controling their kids.

Good luck,
D

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I would not have hesitated to say something to the mother! I would have been polite about it unless I had received an agressive reaction from her.

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I absolutely would have complained to the manager/owner. That is pretty ridiculous. At Walmart they do not allow that, and management there has no problem advising moms to control their children or leave. i would never dream of allowing my child to run around a store like crazy. I understand that kids need to be kids, and being a little silly or rambunctious is OK, but there is a limit!

I don't understand what people are thinking sometimes! How frustrating that must have been for you!

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This is MY opinion...you should have simply asked for the general manager, complained and if nothing happened, leave and tell them that you will not patronize their store any longer. I , however, would never say something to a mother, much less, a child. Its 2009, not 1953. You get in a debate with a woman about how she parents...well, my friend, you'll end up on the 6 o'clock news because people these days will shoot you for something like that. You see stories like that all the time. Sad thing is, you see a blip on the news, then you never hear about it again.

...Next up....two local women get in fight at local boutique...its unsure what exactly happened...apparently, one womans children were mis-behaving...only here on News 4!!!

Its not worth it to me...

M. :)

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I can sympathise with you, but maybe you could also consider that maybe those kids have a learning disorder, and the mother has no one to mind the kids while she has to go out. It is pretty hard to be stuck at home all day and never be able to go out. I assume no one got hurt.
If a shop is going to allow kids and their parents to come in they sometimes need to set aside a place for the kids. I find you to sound very judgemental and you could try to live in the shoes of some one with children who are not the perdfect kids because for a reason that is beyond their control. My son looks very normal but has a serious neurological condition. I would hate to have someone judge his so harshly for something that is not his fault.

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Sounds like an unusually badly behaved bunch. I would have had a word with the clerk or manager at the store, especially as you've indicated that you are a regular customer there. He/she could have spoken with the mother, discreetly, and suggested that she settle the children down or take them out (as you've said, the store is liable for any injuries, etc., so there is real incentive there for a clerk or manager to intervene). As for you doing it, even gently, I think that attempting to discipline strangers' children, regardless of whether they need it, is dicey territory. My daughter is 3 and has had her moments in stores. When it looks like a storm is brewing, I leave. That's that. (That said, I never take her clothes shopping with me - it's too much to ask of a child that age if you can possibly help it).

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Being the outspoken person that I am, I probably would have said something to the mother of the children about their behavior and how it might injure someone. Usually if you call a Mother out like that she will "try" to control her ill-behaved off spring.

If that doesn't work, I say something to the manager of the store and if they refuse to do something about it, I've been known to leave - laying potential purchases on the counter.

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My husband has not one bit of hesitation in discipling unruly children anywhere! It is sometimes embarrassing. He will stop the speeding teenager in the neighborhood, tone down the loud voices indoors (of anyone's kids, not just ours) and has been known to drag kids out of the play place at McDonalds for endangering the little kids in there. It does not bother him at all. He says if their parents won't watch them, then he will keep them from acting recklessly.

I am not so comfortable doing that, but I do take this approach: if they are about to hurt themselves, or others or break something expensive, I stop them. Whether their parent is nearby and being totally oblivious or not, I usually say something or give them a look that stops them.

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Personally, I can completely understand your irritation at that situation. As a mother of three, that are all about a year apart, I have always made it quite clear to my children they are to behave in public. So the responsibility lies on the actual mother. However, due to the fact that there are liabilities involved and such, the store owner/manager should have stepped in to say something. I personally would have probably gone up to the parent myself and asked that she please try to watch her children because they were becoming a danger to themselves and everyone around them. I do not feel it is right for you to parent someone else's child however, seeing as this was not your store and not your child. If it is uncomfortable to go to the parent than it might be best to go to the store manager and ask them to please do something about the hazard going on in their store. I do not feel a store owner should have to make play areas for children so the parents can chuck their responsibilities on someone else. That woman needs to learn to control her children, and if she was making no efforts at all someone needs to bring it to her attention that she should be doing something about it. In the case where they almost ran into you personally, you had every right to say something to the children and I think you handled it quite well. The place of business will eventually suffer for this parent's actions if they do not have some way to inforce some rules within their store. They have the right to refuse service, and probably should have if she continued to allow the child to possibly destroy items as well as people in thier store.

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I do not think your comment to the boy was out of line at all. You have every right to protect your own safety. You also may have saved the children injury...those clothing racks are very heavy when full of clothes, and had they knocked one over on themselves, there could have been serious injury result.

I do think the shop owner should have also said something, if for no other reason than protecting his own assets. Let's take it a step farther and say that they had knocked over a shelf, which in turn went through a pane glass window. Then they are not only liable for any injury resulting, but they also have to replaced damaged merchandise and store property. Not to mention that it is in their best interest to create and maintain a pleasant shopping atmosphere for all customers. Obnoxious children are never pleasant.

From another perspective, I think that a lot of mothers are afraid to discipline their kids in public. When my child was small (probably about 3 years old), she was misbehaving in Wal-Mart. I have never had an issue with immediately correcting poor behavior without regard for locale, and was busy meting out a rather stern talking-to, when a girl of probably fifteen came upon the scene, and began making snide comments, with her mother not-so-discreetly looking on. I simply stared her down and asked if she wanted to clock in here, because I would be more than happy to let her be responsible for watching my child for a while (as the child in question had by then resumed her tantrum). She and her mother were so shocked that I actually had the courage to stand up to them that they just walked away. But it was still unpleasant, and would make just about any mother question (if only for a second) their own ability to carry out any kind of discipline without being ostracized.

Perhaps it was that same fear that prevented another mother, many years later, from disciplining her son for picking up a watch case, taking aim, and throwing it at my daughter, which knocked her over and broke the watch case and the watch. I saw him do it, I saw the intent and the decision of action on his face, and the brief look of triumph when he hit her, before seeing that I had seen him. It was no accident, and I knew it. After helping my daughter up, I made in his direction, and he took off at a run, joined by his brother. His mother, who I know also witnessed it because of her subsequent absolute refusal to look in my direction, did nothing. Attempting to be fair, I asked her if she was aware that her son had not only broken store merchandise but also had intentionally hit my daughter as well. She muttered something like, "yeah, well, whatever..." and would not make eye contact, then turned and walked off. I guess the days of the kids having more fear of the parents than the parents have of the kids is gone. I guess that the days of "You break it, you bought it" are also gone.

Bottom line - parents are responsible for the behavior of their children. They do not have the right to assume that everyone should just make allowances for their child's poor behavior (as I saw a few people suggest). The way I feel about it, if a parent is going to fail to correct the poor behavior of their children, and by such subject others to said behavior, then they should fully expect that behavior to be corrected by those affected. Since when has it been the responsibility of the victim to tolerate being victimized? Yes, I've had people point out the poor behavior of my child to me on occasion and yes, it is embarrassing, but I would MUCH rather have someone point it out to me or even correct my child than have my child be responsible for injury to herself or someone else. As a parent, I AM responsible for the actions and behavior of my child, and any parent who thinks they are not equally responsible, 1. is part of the problem and 2. should not expect others to tolerate exposure to obnoxious and potentially dangerous behavior.

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I would also suggest that the store owner have something for children to do at the store, like a kids corner. Some of the smaller stores I've been to have little playrooms in one of the dressing rooms which keeps them preoccupied. Coming from you it might make her do it since you are such a regular customer. I've wished OFTEN for a little corner table with coloring books or whatever in some stores. I know Gymboree used to have a little tv and some chairs provided. It only makes sense for stores to help accommodate children. But, I do agree with all the others on the mother's responsibility.

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i have 2 incredibly active children, 6 and 1, who are tremendously hard to control and strong willed - but i have to go shopping, i do the best i can, but invariably they are loud, touch things, knock things over and sometimes bump into people.
i cannot watch them every single second, if they do something wrong, they have to apologise and put it right - especially the 6 yo.
it may have been this mother just needed to get stuff done and was doing her best.
the resposibility lies with the parent - although it does not and would not offend me if someone gave my son a telling off.
so if you were feeling that you were in danger of being knocked over or hurt in some way, approaching the mother would have been your best bet, or telling the children within earshot of the mother that they need to settle down

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Dear A. F.

Forgive me for responding for something completely different than what you are asking for. I am a grandmother too, to 8 wonderful angels. In October last year i took the bone density test and the results came back that I was pre-osteoporosis. I had a full hysterectomy at the end of November. I am not on any hormones-synthetic or otherwise. My bones are killing me! I am so interested in what you are doing for yourself??? I dont like alot of medicines. But, if I have deteriorated this much in just 6 months (I had no pain before my hysterectomy) I cant imagine what is in store for me in the future. Would love to hear from you or any others on this subject....Thanks so much in advance!
D.

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I think the manager definitly should've said something. The manager is responsible for not only the store but for all patrons & if children are being unruley then something should be said, especially since we don't know if someone is disabled or has hip/knee problems (like I DO & the lady you mentioned). Parents should never be so smug as to think they're the only ones who should be able to say something to their kids if they're misbehaving in public. We really need to back off of that & start acting like we used to...respectful of others. I hardly ever see that anymore, especially where kids are concerned. I realize this isn't everyone who acts this way but I/we do see it more now I think. I really understand how you feel because that happened to me twice! The first time, we were shopping at one of those small outlet type shopping plazas that you always see around & were walking down the walkway to go into one of the stores & a young boy, looked to be about 4, was pushing (by himself) a shopping cart & literally ran into me/my cart. The walkway was very wide & there was plenty of room to steer clear. The mom didn't say anything or apologize or made him apologize. I said something to him & she just went ballistic! She ranted on & on about "he's just a child, he doesn't know better, he didn't really hurt you..." etc. I reminded her that she did nothing to steer him clear of me & allowed him to run into me & that he should be made to apologize or she should on his behalf, to think about what would've happened had I not been holding onto my cart & had gotten knocked over & hurt. She just went on & on for like 10 minute tyrade before she finally made it into the store where she was headed. The second time, another small shop, some kids were being unruley & were playing in the carts/pushing ea other around in them playfully. This went on for about 40 min even though there was a sign right above them that said basically to keep your children under control & not play in/with the shopping carts. Not knowing who the mom was, I discretely went to the manager & asked them if they would say something to the kids thinking they could very easily get hurt or hurt someone else. Well apparantly he did but he also I guess found the mom & told her who said something because from that moment on, she followed me around the shop & harrassed me til she left. She kept saying sarcastic things directed at me like "we can't shop ANYwhere these days w/o SOMEone complaining" or "c'mon kids we CERTAINLY don't want to cause any trouble..." blah blah blah. What is she, twelve?? Rather than thanking me & apologizing for their behavior she just acted like a 2 yr old throwing a fit. What is wrong w/people these days. If I see a child fixing to get runover, am I to just stand there & let it happen or be chewed out for 'touching their child w/o permission'. Am I REALLY supposed to try & find the parent first?? What happened to looking out for each other. I remember when we were allowed to get spanked or punished/get a talkin' to by any adult (usually neighbors or older relatives) but even going into WalMart we got chewed out by the store clerks if we touched the toy displays & it was perfectly fine accepted by the parents. Nowadays kids get away with anything & we're supposed to let them?? The most annoyance I think is when it happens in the library. I don't even goto the library unless I HAVE to since these days, it's more like daycare.

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