Day Care - Lincoln,MT

The policies at your daycare sound totally standard to me. We pay regardless of whether or not DD goes, except for 2 weeks of vacation a year, for which we must give at least 2 weeks advance notice. If the sitter closes for illness or emergency, we don't pay. DD goes to an in-home daycare run by a husband and wife team that has 10 kids. Also, in our contract, they get a certain number of paid vacation days a year--so, for instance, we pay for Christmas, New Year's, Thanksgiving, and July 4th, even tho they're not open and DD can't go.

Honestly, if you think of this from your provider's perspective, this seems totally reasonable to me. Our providers take this seriously as their profession--they have training, they provide a curriculum to the students, etc. I get paid holidays and vacation from my job, and it seems reasonable that they should, too. I also get paid sick days, which they do not. I understand that this is their family's income, and they need to pay their mortgage, buy groceries, etc, regardless of whether or not my parents decide to come visit and take DD to the zoo instead of daycare. It's important to them to know reliably how much money they will take in each month. I think of all of this as part of paying for high-quality, consistent care. There are drop-in places that you can use for occasional care--you could also hire a nanny part time (although, as a former nanny myself, I can tell you that this is unlikely to be cheaper). We did interview some in-home childcare providers who charged by the day instead of having a clear weekly contract, but these providers were generally less professional--they were simply watching whichever kids showed up that day and making sure they didn't put their fingers in electric sockets, rather than running an organized classroom with a curriculum (learning letters and numbers, etc.), art projects, etc. You'll need to find the solution that works best for you and your family, but your situation sounds totally typical to me for the type of care you've signed up for.

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I'm sorry, but I think that you'll find that this is common practice at small and large centers. My best advice is to take advantage of the time that you are paying for - have a movie date with your husband when she's open and you're both off from work. You've already paid for the "sitter!" Good luck.

edited to add: I read some of the other responses, and I have no idea why Kimmie would be so mean spirited. Do you think that daycare providers go into this business for the luxurious lifestyle and accolades piled upon them? Of course there are bad daycare providers out there, but a great many DO love the kids in their care and do WAY MORE than simply make sure that the children don't die. Just because she needs to charge consistently to make a living doesn't make her a bad person. Sheesh.

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I also run a home daycare and I am part of an association of women who also run home daycares. It is very common to charge for the "spot" vs. the # of days a child is in care. Each daycare is a private business and the provider can create her policies however she desires within the confines of the law. If you decide to enroll your child and sign off on the policies, you are agreeing to her policies as written.

I have had my son in child care before and I currently provide care for other people, so I can see this issue from both sides of the fence. As a parent, it is difficult to pay for "days you don't need"...but you also want to balance that with quality care for your child. As a parent, if I need to pay the same amount per week regardless in order secure a safe place for my child to be at a high-quality child care, I will. In my eyes, when my child was in care, his provider had THE MOST IMPORTANT job in the world! She was taking care of the one person that meant the most to me. If you don't trust your provider or are not satisfied with the job she is doing, by all means find someone else..but if you are happy with her, it is probably worth the peace of mind.

As a provider, it is even more important to me that I be able to have a reliable income BECAUSE I only have 6 children in my daycare. I, like many providers, need the additional income the daycare provides. I ensure a reliable income for my family by filling a certain number of spots. If I did not get paid the same amount each month, I would not be able to count on being able to pay my bills (including those associated with providing care for the other children) and I would not be able to continue in this business. I am sure it is different for each child care provider, but approximately 2/3 of the gross income I bring in each month goes back into the daycare - for food, activities, preschool curriculum, toys, additional utilities used because we are open 10 hrs/day, etc...

Child care providers do one of the hardest and most important jobs, in my opinion. They care for our most precious family members. They work long, hard hours. They often do their work alone - teaching, cooking, cleaning, diapering, guiding, playing, etc... And they do all of this for relatively little pay - if you think about the amount they actually get to keep (after expenses) and the amount they are getting per child. I was shocked to find out that the average teenage babysitter gets paid about 3x or more per child than I do for full-time child care... and that is BEFORE I pay for expenses to run the daycare in the first place.

I am an elementary teacher who decided to stay home with my son and open a daycare. This was my choice and I do not regret it...despite the long hours, hard work, and relatively low pay. I have many intangible rewards each day and each week. I feel I understand both the parent and provider perspectives and I think that helps in my business. I work with my parents as much as possible, but also understand that I have to provide for my family as well. If it is not a mutually beneficial relationship for both parties, you should figure something else out.

PS... FYI - I do offer my families a week vacation credit once they have been enrolled for over a year. I take two weeks vacation each year. I have certain paid holidays each year. Additional days I need to close the daycare - due to illness or for personal reasons - are unpaid. I always let my parents know about a closure ASAP. (Two months or more ahead of time for planned days...and as soon as I know about a serious illness that will affect my hours.)

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At my daycare (it is a center), we have to pay for sick days - if our son is sick, and can't go in. Luckily, they aren't closed because one of them is sick, the benefits of a center. BUT after 6 months of enrollment, we get 1 week every 6 months of "vacation". We let them know our planned vacation week and we don't have to pay for that week. You CAN take it earlier than that 6 months, but then the time that you have built up for the 6 months starts over. So, when my mom was here at Christmas, I paid anyway and let my mom have time with him. We also pay for those holidays that my husband has off, but the center is open. Usually though, my husband takes this time to do stuff around the house and just picks our son up early.

I would ask for a copy of her policies. This should have been something that you agreed to ahead of time. Most in home daycares require you to pay when it is your choice (or illness) to not have your child in their care, but not when it is on them, same with nannies. BUT after a certain amount of time, you should be able to take, at a minimum, 1 week of vacation. It won't be as flexible as it sounds like you want it though, so you may need to look at a different place. Most daycares do have the policy to "keep your spot" because they need to budget and plan based on how many kids are there, and if your tuition isn't reliable week to week, they need to get someone who is.

I dont think you should be paying for the emergency week. In our daycare's contract, we are entitled to two weeks unpaid if we take vacations or whatever. We pay her for her scheduled 2 weeks vacation and major holidays that we are also paid for.

It sounds pretty typical. We don't use an at home daycare so we don't have the issue of them closing down, except for major holidays. I have a tuition agreement with mine, we had agreed for 3 days a week up to 5 hours. We only ended up taking her for about 2 hours 2-3 days a week. So I talked to them and they let me switch her to hourly ($6 per hr). I can just drop her off when we need to ( I did give them the days and times that we would most likely drop her off).

Daycare providers need to have set plans because they need to know how many kids/teachers to plan for, and they need to bring in a steady income and know what to plan for so the don't have too many or too little kids. I would suggest finding a different daycare...not an at home...then you don't have to worry about them closing down for weeks at a time. Plus they usually offer more tuition options so you can be flexible!! GL!

The day care I take our son to does a similar thing; however they have a certain number of "vaccation" days a year for each child/family where they only charge 1/2 day. So if you go on a vaccation or have something come up you can use those days. I also made arrangements with them to not charge on the day's my son is sick and I have to take work off to be home with him. We are also only contracted with them for 1 day a week (although he usually goes two days) and we are only required to pay for the contracted day (+ any additional days we take him that week). What the contract means is that we are guarenteed a spot for at least one day a week, but we can schedule him for more days as long as they have room.

I completely understand where you are coming from, my daycare is the same way, you pay even if your child isn't there. I understand it, because they have salaries to pay and stuff. I feel bad for you though that she left you high and dry for a week because of a family emergency. I feel bad for her that she had the emergency but I definately hope she didn't make you pay for that week. If it's not corporate run maybe you could come to an agreement with her if you got together with the other parents and you all get together on the same page and talk to her about maybe atleast a discount if you aren't there for the whole week. Hope it gets better!

This is the policy for almost every daycare I have ever talked to. If you are looking for flexability, you might want to try a home childcare center, and work that out up front. I offer home care, but I have always told my clients that if they had and emergency or if their child was sick I wouldn charge them, but if they just took a day off work because something like nice weather then they would be charged half the cost of the day. Just try talking about it to her, but chances are its in your contract.

My son was in a home daycare setting until he was 4, and then a Kindercare facility for PreK.

With the home daycare we did have to pay our regular rate no matter what. Luckily, our provider didn't take the kids on two days due to sickness for the entire 4 years we were there, but she did take an annual weeklong vacation - and we still paid our weekly rate for that week. I didn't mind too much because she charged less than other places and she only had a few kids so I'm sure the loss of income would have been a big burden. But, it did suck when we had to take time off work to stay home with him, yet we still had to pay for daycare.

When he switched to the Kindercare they had a policy that if you were gone for a whole week you only had to pay 1/2 price to hold your spot. But, if you were gone less than a whole week you still had to pay your full rate. I liked that better because then we would make sure to plan our vacations for a full week and we'd only pay 1/2 his tuition rate. So, that might be something to suggest to your provider.

I don't think she should be charging you for her closing the daycare for a family emergency UNLESS it states in her contract that you signed that she does charge for it. You need to look at it to know for sure. It is normal to pay daycares for your childs sick or vacation days. Some daycares give up to 2 weeks vacation time w/out having to pay some charge 1/2 time and some charge full time. These are questions I have asked, including what their vacation and holiday schedules are like. Its because of in home provider vacation days (up to 4 wks) that I have always gone with a center. I don't have to take my vacations at the same time they take theirs.

They are standard for our daycare - which is a much bigger one. I do know of a neighbor that is an in home provider, and she is more flexible WHEN the arrangement is negotiated up front. You can try to negotiate w/ her for the future. However, if she has these policies and can fill the spot with another family - she will and get the full price. I know it's frustrating, but I do understand their side of it too.

In my experience it's very standard for a care provider to charge for days that you choose to keep your child home (sickness, vacation, grandparents, etc.) If she didn't, it would affect her income every time a parent decided to keep a child home. It would be even worse because it's a small daycare. Think about it - what if all the parents decided for whatever reason to keep their kids home the same week? She wouldn't be able to pay her bills and would never have a reliable income. Same reason for saving your child's spot - because it's a small daycare and are dependent on the payments from such a small group, it's essential that they receive those payments to keep going - there's not much "extra" like there would be if there were 50 kids. HOWEVER, when you have to keep your kids home because of HER situation (family emergency, sickness, vacation, etc.) she shouldn't charge you for that. I would ask her what she planned to do regarding charges for the week that she suddenly closed for her family emergency. It's fair to charge when it's your CHOICE to keep your kids out of daycare, it's not fair when it's not your choice. Good luck! :)

It is a day care and if that is her policy, I suggest you try and find an in-home day care that doesn't have that policy. I watch kids out of my house, and I have told them that under no circumstances are they allowed to pay me if their child is not in my care. I don't feel like it is the right thing to do, however, day cares frequently have this policy and are likely to stick with it no matter what you say (even if she is a small operation). See if you can find something that may work with your schedule better (there are a few day cares that give you a number of weeks "off" a year if you choose to go that route), and say goodbye to the place he is at.

As a possed to all the other responses I have found a day care facility (Learning Center) that doesn't charge us if the kids are out sick if notified by 8am and when I take them on vacation I don't have to pay for that week either. These are few and far between though. We love our school and the teachers their, but I also know that if we didn't like the school I would be paying the extra to go some place that was better. Depending on where you are you get what you pay for. I think the hardest part of any "in-home" or single person ran day care is that YOU are SOL when they are sick, apposed to an actual facility where their are people there to cover in other teachers absence. Do all your research and look around, take all things into consideration. Best of luck, this is such an important decision and sometimes very hard.

They daycare center my son attends also has this policy. We have to pay if my son is home sick or if we take vacation. However, the daycare does offer free 2 week period for vacations that we are not charged after we have been with them for more than a year.

The general rule with a daycare business (and I'm referring to licensed childcare vs. unlicensed care, as I have no experience with that) is that you are charged for the entire month regardless of whether you keep them out for a day, a week or whatever. It's not her fault that you decided to keep the child home, and really she is holding that spot for him, since she could otherwise give it up to someone else that is willing to pay for missed days. However, it would be reasonable for her to comp you for days that she is closed for emergencies, etc such as you described. I probably would still pay as long as it was not a frequent occurence, but I'm not sure there's a rule or law or anything that says she has to. If you don't like it, there's always the option of going somewhere else, which is what we had to do once when our in-home care provider kept missing a bunch of days due to her husband's medical issues.

As for holidays, you should be thankful she's open holidays. Most daycare centers, and even many in-home providers are not. My son's daycare/school is closed for 2 wks over Christmas, one wk for T-day, and 1 wk for spring break, plus many of the other major holidays like presidents day, Mem Day, etc. I pay for all those days though in my monthly tuition (i.e. I pay the same amount each month regardless of how many holidays there are in that month). In fact, they offer coverage for Christmas and Spring break, but it costs extra money. Sometimes DH and I like that we can both have a holiday off, but that the kids are still in 'school' to say... go ski or hike or go see a movie together on those days. We treat is like a date day, or we plan our trips around those days off and just take the whole family.

Sorry, not much sympathy here. ;)

Child care center have to pay the bills whether the children are there or not and usually have parents calling every day needing full time care. If you are signed up for full time care it is billed weekly and if it's not in your agreement to have any time off for vacation then you have to pay.

It stinks when you don't have the care you need due to her emergency but it is a fact, especially when it is a larger center, those teachers have to be paid for their 40 hours of they can't pay their bills either.

As for her getting a substitute, if she's licensed as the law requires, then she can't just call a friend. To have someone working in your child care facility then they have to meet certain guidlines, know cpr/first aid, have a background check run by the licensing agency, they have to have a 20 hour class just to work in a regular child care setting, etc...it has to be someone allowed by the agency. This is for the protection of your children.

If you are happy with the care she delivers then please think about all the responses here and take into consideration she is a business owner. If you are unhappy with the care then by all means give her 2 weeks notice.

In my experience with the various daycares we have used and the others we checked out, you had to pay if YOU were on vacation. If the school/daycare closed for an emergency and it was short term, you paid. It seems to me if she had to close (and it is a person-run day care) and had no back-up in place for the children, you should not have to pay. Do you have a contract? It is customary for a lot of daycare providers and nannies to also have parents pay for the daycare operator or nanny's 2 weeks of vacation per year...I understand you feel it might be unfair, but you are probably not getting a totally rotten deal. Because the daycare is small, with part time kids, and operated in a small building that is MORE the reason for them to charge even when you are not using it -- even with advance notice. They need the income to meet the bills and reliable wages to the individual or persons who run it.

We decided that the illnesses our children picked up at daycare and their inflexibility were eventually a deal-breaker and opted for an au pair. In addition to my full-time job, I loved the program so much, I became a local coordinator for it! If you would like to discuss the more flexible options available with an in-home au pair, please contact me!

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I understand the frustration in this as all of us with kids in daycare go though it. Yes it is a business but ask yourself this when you take vacation do you get paid by your employer even though you are not there. My daughter is in a in home daycare which the lady has 10 days of paid time off where she will always give a minimum of two weeks notice, usually alot mroe than that. Yes there are time although very few when pickup time has to be early and her paid holidays is more than the norm but they are all things w agree to and if we did not I am sure she could fill the spot in no time. That pay is her income and any daycare weather your child is there or not it not only holds the spot but it is heklps keeps the lights on which is all part of kepingthe business going. I know some commercial daycares out there have some things where they will prorate it to half the weeks pay as opposed to the full the amount and each child is given so may absences a year and you do not have to pay but after those are used up you ar required to pay. Ask yourself this why should they hold your spot when they could haa=ve another child in there and get paid? We do the same where if she takes time off we tak the time off or if I know her week she is planning a vacation I will plan mine that week too. We also have a backup lady that watches our daughter if we choose not to take the time off. You have to weigh the benefits of commercial to semi-private to private. With in home we are put out when they take time of but I know who is watching my chld every day and the environment she is in. With commercial you never have to worry about them not being availabkle if someone is sick someone else comes in their place leaving your child with someone you may not yet have met. My daughter has been with the same lady since she wa 7 weeks old and she is now 2. I would pull her out for anything becasue of those policies. They are what they are. I sometiems enjoy being able to take the random day off when she does and spend it with my daughter. I am due with daughter number 2 and she will then be watching both children.

I will tell you that this is what almost all day cares in the Denver area do as well. You are paying for their space and not for the amount of days they attend. My husband and I ran into financial difficulties this year and we talked with our day care. We now pay only for the days that they go, which is a HUGE benefit for us. With the economy being so bad, I understand that many day cares are doing this. I would suggest looking around and seeing if you can find one that is willing to work with you.

Also, even day care facilities that I looked at that had a "pay for your spot" policy offered 5-8 days of vacation each year when you did not have to pay. Sounds like this woman needs to be more flexible or you need different day care.

You've gotten some great insight here-- Anne from Chicago has very good points as a day care provider that many of us who are not fail to understand. I too, felt frustration every time my child had to miss day care but I still had to pay. It actually made me remove her from that facility because it ended up being a waste of money for us (due to a medical condition, our daughter had lots of doctor's appointments and constantly missed "school"). But I wanted to point out that there is a gal in our neighborhood who runs an old-fashioned type service in her home.. she doesn't charge when you're not there, she's very flexible with when your kids can come, she's more affordable than the center-type day cares, and consequently she's more like a "grandma" than a school. I actually prefer it right now because I have a 3 year old and a 2 year old and expecting an infant in a month, so it is more beneficial to me to have this woman help me with their care (and give me a break) than it is to place them in a curriculum environment quite yet. Check it out-- look to see if there is someone, via word of mouth or an ad in the local weekly/monthly community newspaper--who can provide more of the kind of care you're looking for, without feeling like there is no compromise. I'm delighted I made the switch and have no regrets. Best of luck!

I have had my daughter in child care when she was younger. We moved right before my son was born, so I decided to do child care from my home after he was born. When my daughter was in child care she went to a center and we paid even if she did not attend. For my Family Child Care business I give all of my parents 2 weeks of vacation a year and they pay 1/2 price for the vacation weeks.

If I have to close for any reason I can normally find care for them with another liscensed provider. If I cannot find care then I refund or credit them the amount for the days I am closed. I do close for all of the major federal holidays and they pay for the holidays eventhough I am not open. I do not charge them for my vacation days.

I think you should talk to your provider about the time she was closed for her emergency and see if she will credit you for that time since you had to find other care or take the days off of work. Also look in the contract you signed and see what is says about if she has to close.

if you choose to take time off (vacation, etc) you should pay. She has built your payment into her salary. If she takes time off- even due to an emergency- you should be given credit for that. If you want something different (which would be unusual) then that should have been stipulated from the first day.

I have been in ONE place were we got "vacation" days - 10 total - in a year when we could be out and not pay. Every other place, including the small in home place we have now, we pay unless she is gone/not open for a day. Thinking if it from their perspective, they have to continue to pay their employees regardless of your decision to take a vacation or not, at the same rates - so if you takes lots of time off, or lots of kids aren't there - they lose money and can't afford to pay their employees or cover their own costs.

I have never had my kids in a daycare but this all sounds normal. My sister had her daugther in a daycare and this is how it worked. The way it was explained to me was: I'm sure you and your husband get paid vacation and sick days, you are not at work those days. The same should be for the daycare provider since it is her job.

Most daycare people don't care about your sick childs situation. They are doing this to earn a living. They don't "actually" love and care about your children, they are making sure they don't die while you are at work.

It is like that at most daycares - centers or home daycares. That being said, it is completely unfair that she left you out in the cold without a sitter. I would express to her that in your situation, your child was gone (at your choice) but you still paid her. Your child had NO daycare because of her emergency (did you have to pay?) - therefore I would ask her for compensation - a week (or however many days she was gone) for free because you and your husband had to essentially take vacation or leave without pay.

It does not matter if her daycare is small or large - a spot is a spot - especially if she is licensed. She can only have so many kids per day and if your child comes full time, then she cannot give out his spot. If he goes part-time, the other hours in the week she can give to another child.

To be honest, I would probably move my child just because she left you high and dry in an emergency. I don't know what the emergency was but she could have let everyone know, get a replacement for her, etc.

I think this is the norm. This is how my son's daycare works. I don't think you should have to pay when she closes, but if you keep him out you are still going to need to pay. I understand the frustration, but most daycares run like this.

It is standard to be charged even if you child is not there. Now a lot of day cares offer vacation time to their families. Typically 2 weeks per year so you can choose to use that time for days off, etc. As far as her needing emergency time, unforeseen emergencies happen however, she should not be charging you for that time. She was unable to provide care and that is not something you should have to pay for.

In short, just ask if she can offer a certain amount of vacation time per year that parents can take advantage of. That way it is fair to her and to the families.

Good luck.

For our d/c lady (also a very small business) she has negotiated a certain number of 'vacation' and 'sick' days per year. Total of 7, I believe, may be 10. If she's out beyond those then she doesn't charge us for those days - the next month. We still pay full price that month (I'm sure it's so her finances work out) and then get the money taken off the next month. She also does her absolute best to make sure that she has back up in case of illness - which doesn't always work out - but to close for a week with no notice? That's pretty harsh.
As for when you keep your child home, well, we still have to pay for it when we keep Z home for any reason. I do understand, she's in business & has to be able to rely on a certain amount of $$ coming in every month. I really do get it - but it sure does grate sometimes. For us, we finally justified it to ourselves by realizing that it was the cost of having Z in a daycare with a phenomenal woman. Because she's so amazing, we're able to make the decision to stay with her regardless.
You may not feel the same about your provider! :)

It is my understanding that it is common business practice, that you get charged for the time that your child in enrolled for, no matter if he attends or not. All day cares that I have ever inquired with have a few exceptions to this:
- if they are closed (for example due to sickness or emergency, or for a "break") you don't get charged, or refunded if you pre-paid
- most allow for a two-week "vacation" once a calendar year, if you ask for it in advance

It really doesn't matter that it is a small group. She is probably keeping as many kids enrolled as is legally possible (in our state 7:1 is the max for toddlers), so yes, she is "keeping you child's spot" as in, she's not giving it to another child when he is not there.

If you don't need daycare on a regular basis or you need a more flexible schedule, see what the going rate for a nanny/sitter is. Those are paid by the hour, so you only pay, when you actually need their services. Some larger facilities might offer "by the hour" service as well. However, in my experience this isn't cheaper than paying for full time enrollment at a lower rate...
Good luck~

If she has this issue covered in her policies, then there's not much you can do.

However, I agree with you...This is a business she is running. She is, to a certain extent, your employee. I would be shopping around for a provider (this is how our last day care provider ran things):

1.) Allows for "1 week free" as long as parents notify provider 2 weeks ahead. BTW 1 week=5 business days.
2.) Allows for 1 week provider vacation that requires notification to parents 1 month ahead.
3.) Allows the provider 1 week of paid time off. Notification asap but with a minimum of 24 hours. Provider may attempt to cover this outage with non-licensed care. If the parents doesn't agree to this coverage, they still pay.

This last category is tough for all involved because it includes sick days, funerals, family appointments, etc. But let's be fair...Most jobs provide employees with a minimum of 2 weeks vacation and sick days. So why shouldn't your provider get the same?