Daughter in Depression?

There is NO WAY that any of us on Mamasource could (or should) diagnose your daughter like this, or even tell you anything but to go see someone if you were having concerns. THis is an age where it is a better bet to have someone professional relieve your worries (which could include getting your daughter help).

However, I will say that this is the age I teach and have been teaching for 12 years. This is the age that kids are making major transitions in their lives and are in a bit of a crisis. Said generally, our 6th graders are sweet, loving, energetic and think we're all great. By the time they all get to 7th grade, its amazing what happens to them--physically, emotionally, mentally, they are a mess. Some refer to it as a kind of middle child syndrome, but I think its just the time we see them struggle with breaking away from the dependent little child to figuring out how to be the independent young adult. 7th grade is a miserable year. They are our most unhappy, complaining, under-achieving, and every year we worry that they will be our next 8th grade. Then, miraculously, they almost always come back to us in 8th grade as sudden leaders of the school who seem to be more grounded, secure, and their 6th and 7th grade personalities are a foggy memory.

The bottom line is, if you're concerned, get her evaluated. And know from the perspective of an expert in 11.5 year olds, if its not depression, this may be a tough year, but stick with her (easier said than done) and you'll both come out having a much stronger adolescent relationship. She is dealing with stuff she has no idea how to deal with, and it will be nice to know that you will help and support her every step along the way.

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Our son is 11.5 as well and I also perceive depression in him. On a bad day, he is very negative, is convinced no one likes him, can see nothing positive in his life, and even asks what's the point of life? But he is very changeable. He often goes the full range of emotions in mere hours, from happy glee to raging anger to morose sadness.

I've noticed some of these behaviors for years and we're finally going to a family therapist. I have depression and that can affect the dynamics of all of us. We also have some marital issues that compound things in our parenting styles. Some of his issues are how we, as parents, deal with each other and/or with him; some are his issues on his own. So, it's a full family thing. That may not be so for you, but it might be something to consider.

One piece of advice I would offer is that the best time for our son and one of us to talk with him is at bedtime. He's relaxed and pondering life as he waits for sleep. Sometimes we have the best conversations at those times. Those times are a real gift for connection!

You might find that something in particular is bugging your daughter. She might be thinking about her maturation process, especially with a new baby in the house. Hormones may be wreaking havoc with her and she may not understand what's going on. She may notice the effects of depression and anxiety in you and not fully understand it. The sky's the limit for what might be bothering her right now.

My only caution is that I'm a talker and our son is not always. It can be a fine line between asking too many questions and not enough. Catching him at the right time is the key. But sometimes you just have to dig in, even when he doesn't want to talk, and you find a whole world of concern in there. Trust your gut and share some of your experiences and feelings with your daughter. It might be the window to a whole new world for her that is very helpful.

If you find you can't handle it yourself, a school counselor might be helpful or even another professional outside of the school. One reason we're doing the family counseling is that we don't want to give our son the impression that HE is the problem. We're all in it together and all could use a little help in expressing our feelings and concerns.

Best of luck and peace to you, your daughter and your family!

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Hi M.,

It sounds like you are a very caring and concerned mother who is very attuned to your daughter. Since you are concerned about her, I definitely think you should seek counseling services from a local mental health provider. I am an individual therapist who specializes in adolescents and young adults - I have observed that when parents are concerned, there usually is an issue. Since adolescents have unique needs, I definitely would suggest looking for a provider who has experience with this population. I trained at the Children's Hospital Boston Adolescent Medicine Clinic where services (medical and mental health) are specifically geared towards adolescents. I would strongly suggest this clinic for care for your daughter. If this isn't convenient, I am sure there is a provider closeby with experience in the area, it just may take a little research. Good luck to you and it sounds like you are on the right path!

S.

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Hello M., I suggest if your intuitive wisdom had you sit yourself down to write to Mamasourse, there is reason enough to begin researching. I stress the importance to take care of yourself. The more upfront and real you are about YOU, the more you can help your precious daughter, right? This is a good time to acknowledge that 'yes, it is very likely a genetic connection here' Why wait to be told that? Why not be proactive in this situation and 'deal' with information you already have? For example, its' important to acknowledge the connection between nutrition and mood. So, ask yourself 'am I a good example here?' Very widely known that exercise impacts mood. Ask yourself, 'Am I good model here?' Can I make immediate change in my diet and exercise with my entire family. Can we support eachother this way? Caffeine (soda?), chocolate (some, not all), any white foods such as flour and sugar are brutal for people with a tendency for depression...see if you can monitor that for your daughter (as well as yourself) and note FIRST HAND the change in outlook. If you do the work, you'll know. There are many books out there on this ofcourse, but irritability, withdrawal, isolative behavior, loss of interest and/or pleasure in previously enjoyed activities, sleep disturbance (reduced or increased sleep), changes in appetite (reduced or increased appetite), and reduced energy" are all sited as specific signs of possible depression brought on by puberty. You mentioned more than a few of these. I suggest the more connected she feels to you through your honest and real acknowledgement of depression and anxiety tendencies in your family, the less hopeless she will feel about it. This IS a pivotal time for your daughter. Now is a time for you to rally around her and offer her companionship even though she balks...and she will! Make it exciting to be with you trying NEW active things...perhaps your extended family can take the younger children to allow you weekly time with he to hike up a small grade mountain. This simple task can be an exilerating experience with your almost 12 year old and believe me it opens up an opportunity for her to TALK which is one thing you want with a pre-teen...I recall those days with my pre-teens very well...pivotal times as I said M., and times I wouldn't change for anything. Three girls with hormones and all of us with a tendency for depression as yourself, and YES diet and exercise can make a significant difference! So...hang in there M. and remember that self-empowerment is vital for you to be able to guide and support your daughter through this period....depression or not. There are also some wonderful naturopathic docs out there as well as some good allopathic docs. Find one that YOU resonate with. Good luck and keep us posted! N.

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I whole heartedly agree with the others in seeing a professional.
From my own experience... my daughter is now 13 (end of month) when she turned 11, she got her period and it was the worst summer she'd been through. She was getting it twice a month, which her pediatrician said happens to some girls until they regulate. She wouldn't go to the beach, or to the pool. She holed herself up in the house and was a couch potato unless I made her go somewhere. I felt so sad for her.
She did come through it and is very active and enjoying the summer this year.

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this is a very sad story..at 11 kids should be running around hanging out with their freinds, not home in a house not going out. It could be hormones ..but what ever it is...get her to a doctor or even a shrink. Summer camp or some place where she can find a freind to talk to about whats making her sad..this is not normal for a 11 year old. She needs Attention. Try taking just her out for a day of shopping, to the lake etc..just a one on one and get her to talk about whats bothering her. She seems to be silently crying out for attention...so it would be a good idea to get her some ..how about a HIG BROTHER / BIG SISTER PROGRAM. that might be good to...
Best of luck I hope you both feel better soon ! Prayers for you both

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M.:
Sometimes, teens and preteens are especially vunerable to becoming depressed. You may want to find out if there is something going on at school, since she's saying that nobody likes her. Also, if you suffer from depression, she may have inhereted this or be copying you.

You may want to consider getting her a counselor if the problem continues. But also, I'd ask her if anything has changed with her friends to make her feel this way.

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Hi M., I have had similar problems you are facing with my son. He was feeling a little down and because I have some issues with depression and anxiety myself, I was a little afraid for him. I spoke with his school counselor and while his grades were good, they said his attitude had shifted. So he (the counselor) would visit with my son once a week and it gave my son someone other than us to talk to. I think the journal is an excellent idea for many reasons - she can vent everything down on paper, she should write even if it's a good day and this way she can go back and look at what she's written. Also, if it's a "cycle" you (or she) will be able to notice a pattern. In my opinion, I think it will be VERY important to keep an eye on her. Talk to her, let her know that there are people who she can talk to if she doesn't feel comfortable talking to you. And don't rule out a professional if she needs one. It sounds like you're on the right track - lots of love & support can go a long way!

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I apologize because I have no real advice - but was curious if you have spoken with her school guidance counselor before? Is this behavior at school as well as home, are her grades normally acceptable? If so, I think I would definately speak with a professional on some level - giving her a chance to vent to someone unbiased might change things a little? These days kids way too young are way too overwhelmed with their place in society, they are stressed for reasons we dont always understand; because when we look back on being their age we realize how "easy" life was and how we wish we could go back - but they dont feel that way when they are in the moment. Does she talk with you at all about her feelings? Is she bottled up? Maybe buy her a journal and her being able to express her feelings in a different way might help her out a little - give her a little encouragement along with the journal.

Who knows. But I think as mothers we have great instincts when it comes to our kids and if there is potential for her to be depressed, I think I would look into it immediately.

On the other hand - she's almost 12, going through puberty and experiencing life's little quirks. It could be her way of adjusting. I have a little sister who would rather hang out around the house, reading her book or playing on mysapce than go out. Sometimes we have to literaly drag or beg her to take a walk around the block with my daughter and I but she is perfectly normal.

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Hi M.,
Sorry to hear about your daughter. Do you know if any of her classmates/neighbors are bullying her? As a former teacher, I've seen the effects of what bullying/teasing can do to another child's self esteem/self worth. Try talking to her about the other kids she's around. Maybe there's something going on. I don't know if she's an online user, but bullying can also take place via internet and text messaging. Girls especially are terrible towards eachother. Love your daughter and keep trying to get into her brain and heart. Raising girls these days is challenging due to all of the pressures that are on them from society. Good Luck.

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Hi M.. I have three beautiful children and when they were little, I did home daycare. I remember the rambunceous joy that surrounded us. My children (26, 24 and 19) and I hit our bumps along the way, but each of them got through just perfectly! I offer my humble opinion. I notice that, like me, your two older girls are two years apart and your baby is an infant. Your second and youngest are farther apart than mine, but you understand the special challenge of having a new baby after so many years. Your oldest girl is just entering her most difficult years, puberty, junior high, (really like the like scariest girls on the planet like ;-)), she also has the awesome experience of having a new little sister. In addition she is blessed by having a Mom that is home for her. She is a lucky girl. Can you imagine watching your Mom have a baby and starting your own adult cycle in the same year? Your little girl is fine, she is dealing with real issues. Tell her it's okay. Make yourself available to hear her. Sometimes just setting aside 15 minutes for 'just the 2 of you' could go a long way. A journal is a great idea. Havi her get her thoughts on paper, it gets them out of her head. Pay attention. Trust your gut. Give her YOU, it is what she needs.

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I would say it sounds like normal PMS & puberty BUT where you suffer from depression/anxiety I would take her to her doctor. Just for an evaluation, depression especially in a very young child going through puberty is not good. I would take her to her doctor & possibly a specialist to rule it out. Don't mess with depression or she will just get worse. I know from personal experience. Not me but a few close family members.

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Hi M.,
I too suffer from panic attacks and anxiety, and thankfully I am on an anti anxiety medication and now I feel like a new person. I have a 4 yr old and worry that she too will suffer later in life, and am prepared to look for the signs, although I pray she will never have to experience what I have. I think you are very right in watching the difference in behavior in your daughter, it is just so hard to tell at her age if it is a true illness, or just hormones out of whack with all the changes in her body. So my advice is inform her pc about her behavior, do not rush her to a phyciatrist just yet, and let her body go through the change. It is very hard for young girls, their bodies start to change before they are ready to deal with it. She may be feeling a little insecure and confused with what is going on with her body, and that is a very hard topic to discuss with your mother, even though we all wish they would. I have a weird memory where I can still remember going through that. And sometimes having someone outside the circle is the easiest to talk to. Maybe her pc could rec a councilor to kinda get whatever is on her mind out. I hope and pray that this is just her body reacting the changes, but if it is something more like clinical depression or anxiety, their is hope and help, and no one should have to suffer. So stay strong, and just be there for her, but do not push, let her open up when she is ready. I know it must be so painful to watch her but be strong.

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I know that others have said this.. but i just have to say it again. Get some help for your daughter. Also be aware that the first person she talks to might not be the "right" person. You might have to go to two or three or even four psychologists before you find one that she connects with. I had these same issues and this is about when it started for me as well. I wish my mother had both recognised and done something about my problems. Maybe i woudn't have the scars that i carry around today if she had.

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Please please please seek someone for her to talk to. I had this issue too, when I started my period around her age (I am now 30) and had severe mood swings, depression, suicide attempts, it was horrid. My parents just chalked it up to normal puberty, and then I was diagnosed with all sorts of personality disorders (which I knew I didn't have), and it turns out I actually have Premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD) and knowing that as a teenager would have helped! I just have big issues with hormone fluctuations, and am still learning how to cope with it. And for your daughter, if the history is already there for depression and anxiety, it is even more important to have her seen. Just please don't put her on medication...meds are meant for adults, not kids!

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M., I would absolutely get her someone, besides you, to talk to. I have been a teacher for years and am now a tutor. I can't tell you how many students I've had come to me for "academic" tutoring who find me (not in any way certified as a councillor) a disconnected listener whom they can tell anything. I've had boys break down in tears when I ask them how things are going. I've had girls confess severe learning disablities that they have been trying to hide from their parents. I've had girls discuss their issues about a friend's pregnancy (about which noone else knew) - the list goes on!

Sometimes it's not easy to let go and let the love of your life talk to someone else about what is bothering her, but I have to tell you, it may be the right thing to do. Sometimes the problem seems (to adults/parents) like "nothing," but to a little girl going through some major changes, it's bothering her enough to change her outlook and perception of herself.

My cousin had this same issue when she was the same age. She is just now, at 38, just beginning to deal with the reprecussions of her neglected childhood depression. It's very sad.

It's worth the money, time, and "psycic energy" for you and her to find someone for her to talk to that she likes. It may take a little time for her to warm up to someone, but let her be involved in the selection process. After you find someone, it may not take long to identify the problem and start helping her move forward in her growth process.

Good luck! Good for you for noticing and being concerned!

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i just read two wonderfull answers, but i would get some professional help and see where it goes from there, i push the doctor first because thats my upbringing, I think its important to get professional help first and then see if its just needed mom time. It could be a school thing as well, i have been through this in the last 2 years myself my daughter is almost 14 and its a tough go, there is so much peer pressure as well

good luck to you

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If you sense a problem get it checked out. Some of the depression could be normal but the no one likes her attitude might be more of a problem. I would speak to her GYN or primary DR. for a referal to someone who specializes in teenage girls.

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Lots of great advice so far...I just wanted to add something we recently found...is your daughter on Zyrtec by any chance? Our 4 year old was having mood swings and temper tantrums that were just not himself - and in searching for some tips and advice we found a link between Zytrec and mood swings, anxiety, depression, and fatigue and our son is on Zyrtec (or was until two days ago when we learned some of this). Here's one of the patient comments boards I found: http://www.sidefxdrugs.com/personalz.php

Anyway, this may not help in the least, but I thought I'd throw it out there, just in case.

K.

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My kids all struggled with the a lot of mood shifts during this age. I remember a counselor I had for them telling me once, "Parents need to understand that kids don't grow up in linear progression. We seem to have no problem caring for infants and giving them our complete attention, but seem to forget that teenagers come back to us just as helpless and lost and need us just as much, if not more."

In other words, your daughter is probably going through what teenagers everywhere go through; hormonal changes, body changes and the fear of growing up and taking new responsibilities in a world that they feel they are not the least bit ready for. This of course conversely comes with their realization that they are leaving their carefree childhood forever.

I agree with Sarah, find a counseling agency in your area that has a unit/department specializing in adolescents and pre-teens. Not only will the counseling and possible medical intervention help your daughter, but you'll get some support in your parenting as well and they'll help you learn some tricks in helping your daughter (and other kids in the future) along the path to being a happy well adjusted adult.

Its good that you are attentive to your daughter. Let her know that you care and are there for her. See if she'd like to do some things with you, try to spend some time with her as well so she'll feel close to you and bonded when she needs to trust you -- she'll know you are there for her.

I live in Manchester NH and know that the state mental health system had some very good programs for adolescents or you if you are further south, you can look into the Boston area. Consider yourself lucky as New England has some of the best mental health services in the country -- use them they are there for you and your daughter!

BTW, if money is an issue, I know that many agencies have programs or sliding scale fee programs to help with fees; please don't let finances stop you.

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It could be a phase she is going through and may get past it, but if not find a naturopathic doctor in your area. Go on line to find one. Ask if they do Neuroscience testing for her. Her serotonin levels in the brain could be low. They can effectively give her a natural supplement with no side effects to raise it. Don't play guessing games. Her pediatrician will not do the same. Councelling is always good too. Make sure you sit with her every night for at least 15 mins. to see how her day has gone. Don't skip days or stop as she gets older either. It will be the best thing you can ever do for her.
Good Luck!
Sue

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