Crying It Out - Columbia,SC

They cry because they need you. They will learn that mom will not come and know that they can't depend on you, imo. As someone else said, this is a touchy subject. You'll have people disagree with me and people that will agree or even have a 3rd answer. I started having kids later than some and I've seen a lot and watched a lot of what I would or wouldn't do as a parent. I have friends that do/did let the child cry it out or didn't tend to their needs quickly and their kids got plenty of practice crying. Now they whine and cry all the time, as an older child. I've been there for my kids all the way and I've never had any 'crybabys'. I have 4 and they are all well adjusted children, confident, independent, responsible and happy.

Mother of 4
(12yo, 11yo, 3yo, 1yo)

Something you might want to consider - are they getting enough to eat? As in, real, solid food? Mine was eating a lot more than jarred baby food at that age. They're old enough to gum real food. Noodles, cheese, very soft chicken, spaghetti, fruits, veggies, special toddler snacks.

Hello,

This is a touchy subject. Many people, myself included, could never let their child CIO. Part of being a parent is to adjust to having less sleep. In the big scheme of things, it really isn't that much of a sacrifice to get up a few times a night for maybe 2 yrs of your child's life. When they are a little older, I would revisit it. That is, when they are old enough to understand that it is bedtime and not play time. But right now they are helpless babies that need to be comforted by a parent.

There are very few studies on the effects of CIO, here is one from Harvard:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/1998/04.09/ChildrenNe...

Good luck!

Hi F.,
I may just be a different voice in the crowd here, but this issue is somehow so important to me that I am glad I can voice my opinion. I understand the "crying it out" approach is very popular in the US, infact it so popular that even doctors recommend it. I want you to know that in many other countries (Europe for example) this is considered wrong by pediatricians, especially for babies (that is from birth until at least 24 months) and it's even considered damaging for the children's emotional development. The "philosophy" underlying this approach is that babies express by crying both physical and emotional needs (hungry/hurting - lonely/just need a hug) and they don't have the ability yet to "trick" parents with the "crying currency" as older children do (2 or 3 years old). So if they cry is because THEY NEED US in some kind of way. Also remember, they learn to soothe themselves anyway when they are older, IT HAPPENS ANYWAY.I have always found the crying it out method cruel and never applied it to my child. It just did not feel right to me and I did not wanted to force it on him and on me as well, it would have been a torture for both. Yes, I was sleepless for many nights. I was tired. But eventually my boy grew enough to sleep all night long and now I am glad I listened to my conscience. So my advice here is that it doesn't hurt to be a little bit critical of doctors sometimes, as history taught us that years back many theories largely applied to children (such as the feeding on a rigid schedule rather than on demand like it happens today) have proven themselves wrong and even damaging for our little sweeties. I say, for things that are not strictly medical, follow your "mommy" instinct, you will not regret it.

I don't have twins, but my daughter gets VERY upset to hear her brother cry -- do they really HAVE to be in the same room to hear the other upset?

I personally don't believe in the "cry it out/ferber method" for two reasons:
1) It teaches your babies that you are not there for them when they are scared or upset; and
2) My close friend lost his child to SIDS, and while in counseling, found several couples lost their children while "crying it out" -- they stopped crying, the parents thought the baby was OK, but it had stopped breathing and asphyxiated (unconscious then death from lack of oxygen).

If you MUST try this method, wait a month or so until your move is done, and check out this link: http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-ferber-method-demystified....

Good luck and blessings -- I see you post a lot regarding your twins sleeping and hope you can find a good compromise for your all:)

Don't do it! Our daughters ped suggested that our daughter needed to learn to comfort herself as well at her 6month visit. I breast feed her till she was 13 months old (she was 1 month premie) and we co-slept with her as well. The dr told me that she needed to stop nursing at nigh, learn to deal with hunger and needed to learn to self soothe. He wanted me to put her in her room and cry it out. Hearing this just ate away at my heart. It didn't feel right for us so my husband and I searched for other options. We found another dr who suggested that if a baby was waking at night, needing to be rocked or held, that there was something they needed. He said that emotional "needs" were just as important as physical (being hungry, cold or wet). He assured us that if we met these needs and let her wean herself from co-sleeping (in your case rocking) then when she did she would be a better sleeper. She weaned from co-sleeping at 16months when our son was born (also a full month early). When she did she started wantig to be rocked (which she did for about 3 weeks) and then started putting herself to sleep, in her big girl bed (twin bed on the floor). She slept thru the night and has since then. If she did wake she went right back to sleep. Now at 2 1/2 I take her to her room at nap time (1pm) and she covers up and goes right to sleep (usually 2-3 hours) and we tuck her in at 8:30pm. She sleeps thru the night till 8am. We are taking the same position with our son. I know what might be right for our family might not be right for yours. Especially with you having twins. I guess I just want to tell you not to just go along with what the dr tells you b/c he's the doctor. You are their mom and God will lead your heart to what is right for your children! Trust it! If you find peace with them crying it out then by all means, its what's right for you. But if not, stick with your gut! It could be that they just need a little extra comfort while they are teething. Meeting this need (if that's the case) might help them in other ways down the road.

I feel for you and will keep you in my prayers. I can't imagine having two at once. It was a lot of fun having our two 16 months apart though and I can tell you it is so wonderful when they are old enough to really start running around and playing with each other! They are so blessed to have each other and I know they are the joy of your life!

I do pray that your nights go well, regardless of what way you choose to go. Dr Sears (drsears.com) does have some wonderful advice. There is also another web site (nogreaterjoy.com) that has a lot of good advice (you do have to disregard some of it though, or atleast we did) and a book... I think it was called the no tears sleep method (or something like that). I hope I have been able to help in some way. Like I said, just follow your heart. You can't go wrong when you do.

God bless, J.

You have gotten a lot of responses already. I will just add a couple of practical points.

One is that your doctor is a doctor. Not a parenting expert, not a sleep expert, just a doctor. They do not train doctors on how to get babies to sleep or on parenting methods in medical school. Your doctor's opinion is simply your doctor's opinion. She is no more qualified than you to have that opinion, in fact probably less qualified because she does not know your babies.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with 8 month olds waking up at night. I do not have twins but I have three children, only one of them slept through the night at that age.

You have to trust your instincts and do what is right for you and your family. I just want to make the point that you and your husband are the decision maker here and no one (including me posting responses on mamasource) can tell you what is the best choice for your family.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, because you've already gotten a lot of responses from folks who don't think it's such a hot idea. And generally one doesn't dismiss their pediatrician's advice lightly. However, that pediatrician isn't the one who's losing sleep if your baby wakes up in the middle of the night (or even worse, wakes up the second!) So you may have to find something that will work for *you*. Furthermore, pediatricians are highly trained in the field of medicine. They aren't developmental psychologists or sleep specialists or therapists. So, if
"cry-it-out" doesn't seem right to you, or if keeping them in the same room isn't working, don't feel guilty that you "aren't following the doctor's orders." Find information that will help you do the best thing for your babies so you won't feel guilty, and something that you CAN manage without becoming a sleep-deprived zombie.

There ARE better options (for your own sanity and for your babies) than cry-it-out, but don't want to sound all "holier-than-thou". I know that parenting newborn twins IS HARD - (that's why it's fairly unusual for humans) and doing what is best for the babies ALL THE TIME will take a lot out of a parent. Do the very best you can without losing your mind and know that it WILL get easier.

As far as alternatives, the Elizabeth Pantley books may have some good recommendations.

If you're wondering why so many of the posters are so anti-CIO (cry it out), I promise they aren't trying to make you feel like a "bad mommy." There is some information here,

http://www.kellymom.com/parenting/sleep/comfortnursing.ht...

or you can just google for "cry it out dangerous."

"Anyone who advises you to let your baby cry until he gives up and falls asleep is focusing on the baby's behavior (going to sleep by himself) and not on how the baby feels in the process."

You might want to do a little more research first. Crying it out can cause brain damage--even Ferber has had to back off his suggestion of it. Beyond that, all you teach them is that when they need you, you won't come. Imagine being afraid in the dark and help not coming: it's pretty sad.

Instead, you might try attending them when they wake, by just patting them or holding a hand and seeing if that works. Children who know their needs will be met are more likely to be happily independent later because they know someone will come if they need it. So, you can give up five minutes rocking someone back down, or listen to the baby scream for an hour. Seems obvious. They're still BABIES. It's not like they're going to have to put themselves to bed or anything.

I suggest the book, The No cry Sleep solution by Elizabeth Pantley. Letting them CIO does nothing but stress everyone out and you might end up with a mess of vomit to clean up in the middle of all of it. And the move could be stressing them out, I'd wait until you are in the house for a couple of months before trying anything new, change + teething can be very stressful for a little one.

Here's my take on the whole "crying it out." You need to do more research to get an idea of the whole picture.

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/handout2.asp

Teething is painful and many doctors give educated personal opinions you can take everything they say to the grave as the truth but that's not the way it should be. Consider teething as well painful how about some motrin?? You children won't get high from it so don't be afraid to use it too many parents are. I'm 45 and recall teething coming in at age 8 and it hurt. As far as breast feeding WOW! I have never heard of dealing with hunger and cry it out before I breast feed maybe you should consult a professional about that i can say those I consulted said this it's a liquid diet it goes through the body pretty fast that's way babies eat ever few hours. Not sure if you are feeding solids or not some parents don't. If on solids and 8 months old well I can say this things change after they are 12 months old. Maybe you should give cereal at night as well so they can make it through the night, experiment they're your kids eating some cereal before bed might be what they need.....and rule of thumb doctors are just people they make mistakes and they don't live with your kids...raising a child at times can be a test for you and them...what works for one personal may/maynot work for another. Best wishes

F.,

First of all, congrats on your babies. I became a SAHM of twin girls 2 years ago. And I can tell you from experience that it is HARD. My girls did not sleep through the night (and many times still don't - last night included) until they were 1 year old. I could not stand to hear them "cry it out" and therefore did not attempt it. I felt like they were crying because something was wrong, as far as they were concerned. Even though many times I didn't know what the problem was, I know that my comforting them put them at ease.

Since your babies are teething I am sure you are addressing the pain with Tylenol and Orajel but I just recently discovered (because my girls are also teething) a product called Hurricaine Gel, that has 20% Benzocaine.

My girls finally started soothing themselves back to sleep once I replaced their night lights with small lamps w/ a 15 watt bulb. They could see to find their paci and blankie when they woke up. But before that they spent many nights in the bed with me and my husband. And contrary to popular belief it wasn't a problem, at all, to get them "out of our bed". I also kept a swing and a bouncy seat on my side of the bed. And they spent many nights beside our bed swinging and/or vibrating while we ALL slept.

The bottom line is that YOU HAVE TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO SURVIVE RIGHT NOW. And crying it out may not be the best idea. Good luck with what ever you decide.

May God bless you all!
T.

You don't have to pick them up at all. Just stand there rubbing their backs, belly or head is soothing too. You are still there but you are compromising with them on this in a way. Give them 5 to 10 mins before you go in the room. Don't talk to them much and if they start to play, walk away.

Good luck!
S.

You might look into the Formula you are using, my daughter had a bottle of the homemade version I gave her and slept through the night no problems. THe one I used is high in good fats and protein which keeps the baby happy and full... You might want to check it out.

Also you might want to relook into the cereal, baby's can't digest grains and if it is extruded it is just plain bad for the baby, not to mention filled with processed carbs that in conjunction with fruit, it is one heck of a carb boast, up their protein and fats and you may see a huge improvement.

Here are two links you might find interesting.
Here is some great info on feeding baby's this works exceptionally well.
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/feeding.html
Here is the info on the extruded cereals
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/dirty-secrets.html

It's so hard no matter how u do it. If you are confident that they are not dirty, hungry,etc...let them cry it for 20 min or so. If this is too hard then check on them first quickly and make sure not dirty or have a fever, then leave them quickly, no talking, etc. They will prob scream even louder once u leave but just remember if they went to bed happy then they are fine, just mad because they think its part of their routine that u come when they call. They are used to being picked up, fed, rocked, etc and expect it. Give them time and see if they can put themselves back to sleep. Do they have a crib soother toy like a light up music playing thing? It's gonna take some time and it's not gonna be easy. Luckily mine usually crys 20 min or less but has cried for an hour or more before. I did everything i could do so.....it sux but once they learn to get back to sleep on their own your world and theirs is gonna be soooooo much more rested! Good luck : )
PS i am no expert, this is just what i did. I have noticed we have good days, weeks, and even months of sttn, then teething or something else starts and i give some extra attention at nite...then we are back into bad habits that i have to break again. I don't mind checking on them and rocking them, but once it becomes every nite or every few nites then i think she is just used to it and not really needing it.

Well, I'm not a fan of keeping them in the same room if you don't have to,but I'm also not a pediatrician. There's no law that says they have to get used to hearing each other cry. One may wake up in her room and cry and the other may be a different room and not even hear the crying...but it's up to you.

About the crying it out...it will hurt u more than it hurts them...I will say that once u get it set in your mind that this is what u r going to do, then stick with it...it's tough, don't think it will be easy. No one wants to hear their child cry without rescuing them, but that is the way we did it. When we decided to start it w/my daughter (at 7 mths) she cried about 40 min. the first nite and 20 min. the next and then it was over. My son was about 6/7mths and he cried about 1 1/2 hrs(yes I let him cry that long) and I still had to go in there for a few min. He just would not give up. The next nite it was closer to 40min-60min. But he too got the hang of it quickly. Use your best judgement. I would also add that if you are moving to a new home you may want to tough it out for about 2 wks until they get used to the new surroundings. I wouldn't start the crying it out process immediately. I wouldn't expect them to learn to sleep thru the nite in a new place. U might want to let them get familiar first. - Also if it were me, I'd separate them. I know several families of twins who don't sleep together. They're not 1 they're 2. There's no reason u should have 2 screaming babies when u could potentially have just 1...just my opinion and experience... No science behind it...Good luck.

I responded to another one of your requests, but I just wanted to leave you a quick note. You know your children best and what you think will an won't work for them. As long as you use common sense and listen to your gut, I'm sure you'll do fine. Moving is probably a big change for you all, and I'm sure you'll cope with it the best you can. Enjoy their 1st holiday season and God bless!

I think you have gotten a lot of great advice here. My child was/is a crier at night too. She is 2 ½ now so instead of crying she comes and gets in the bed with us. However, she does know she has to go back to her bed after she is comforted. Our doctor suggested we use the CIO method too but instead started using soothing music in her room at night and created a specific bedtime routine. We would rock her for a few minutes then put her in bed and rub her back a little and then leave and let her fall asleep, worked very well for the most part. As someone else posted each child is an individual and has specific needs but they are just that, needs. I think it is crazy that we expect babies to be able to reason and sooth themselves before they age of 2. Have you ever seen a 2 year old throw a tantrum? They have no idea what to do with those emotions and fears which is why they were given parents to help them sort it out. I truly believe they will discover the CIO method is detrimental to children and causes insecurities and fears later on. I think God gives us that internal alarm when we hear babies cry so that we feel the need to assist them. Just my personal opinion here, best of luck to you and your family I know how tough it is to go on with so little sleep.

I don't remember if you stay at home with them or not. If you do then I would recommend NOT letting them cry it out. Tend to them in the middle of the night and try to nap during the day when they do if they are napping at night. If you have a close friend or family member who could take them during the day for a few hours to allow you to get this sleep, that would be an idea to. I just think that this is a phase, maybe a long phase, where they are readjusting their sleep habits and they are going to get back into the swing of things in a week or two. Have you thought about bringing them to bed with you? I know it sounds like a lot but if they get cozy with you and everyone sleeps then everyone wins.

I agree with having things settle down first before trying anything. As a mom who has tried both methods, one: tending to every little cry and two: cry it out, I believe that every child is an individual with individual needs. One method will not work for all. In my little one's case, he needed a hybrid of methods and a systematic gradual method. My son was waking up every two hours at that age as well. The first attempt at CIO was very difficult. Poor baby cried and cried. It was so heartwrenching! I tried, but it didn't stick. I then realized that rather than try to eliminate all of the wakenings in one night, it was best to tackle one at a time.

After this realization, it was easy. First, I made sure that my son had a full dinner, a clean diaper, and warm pajamas on. I had a bedtime routine: bath, play, read book, dim lights, soft music, rocking chair, cuddle... My son soon learned the routine and would crawl towards me at high speed when he saw the lights dim and heard the soft music. He looked forward to falling asleep! I cuddled with him and nursed him to sleep before putting him to bed. Sure enough, he was awake 2 hours later. I let him cry out the first wakening. Five minutes later, he was back asleep. Whew! The next four or five awakenings, I tended to him. I continued this until the first awakening had been extinguished. It took a few days to a week. Then, I aimed to eliminate the second awakening...and so forth, and so forth. So, it took a few months, but he was sleeping through the night at 12 months. Then, the hubby and I went on vacation for the weekend and left the baby with grandma. Back to square one. I followed the same procedures and he is now sleeping through the night again at 14 months. These days, he is well-rested and happy as a clam! YAY! Good luck! :)

P.S., I just read the post about the parents who lost their babies to SIDS due to CIO. Well, that's just awful! I was paranoid about it too so I often checked up on the little guy just to make sure he was breathing. I also have the digital monitor by Safety 1st that is so sensitive that I can hear him breathing.

Crying it out is not easy!!! I did it 3 times with my girls. Like you my oldest kept getting up every 2 hours at 9 months and I was exhausted. My pediatrian old me to let her cry and no matter what not to say any thing to her or go in her room. The first night she cried for hours and it took all I had not to go in. I just stood out of sight by the door and watched her. Eventually she went to sleep. The next night, same thing. The 3rd night she cried for 5 minutes and went to sleep. 4th night, nothing!! It was over. I know many moms won't like this approach but believe me none of my daughters are tramatized by it. I am the ONLY one that remembers how hard that was. My husband wasn't even present. I waited until he was out of town to do it because I know he would have gone in there and picked them up. My advice would be that once you start letting them cry it out, you can't go in. Otherwise you'll will have let them cry for nothing becasue you will hav eto start from scratch. They will think if they cry long enough you'll eventually come. So if you are not willing to go the distance I would tell you not to try it becasue you'll just torment yourself and the kids until one of you give in. If you can do it, sleep waits for you in 4 days.