Breech Birth and ECV Questions

With all due respect, A., I know very few women who do or did want to have major surgery on their core muscles in order to deliver a baby - myself included.

My fetus was way breech at almost 40 weeks. Like, butt first down the chute at the last minute. Week before she was locked and loaded, when I went into labor, she was lying sideways. So...what was I going to do? Live my dream of a vaginal birth? It might have been possible. Have my baby die or born brain damaged? Yeah...very distinct probability there.

I don't tell you my experience for the sake of macho posturing. I'm telling you because as much as you don't want to deliver C-section (and remember, you <i>deliver</i> via C-section, you don't just "have" one - you are as much an active participant in your child's birth as a woman who delivers vaginally) you and your baby will go home alive and healthy.. By all means don't stop trying alt therapies, but it's not the most horrible thing if a vag delivery doesn't happen.

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Hello A.,
I can't really help you with the information you are looking for, I just wanted to share my experience of two c-sections.
Nobody wants a c-section, and we all have many different reasons for it. I was 21 hours in labor, my water had broken 11 hours before they ordered an emergency c-section. They should never have waited that long for me to do a vaginal delivery. It caused my baby breathing problems to lay dry that long and he still has trouble when he gets a cold these days.
My point is, c-sections are not that bad. You want to do what is best for you and your baby's health. When I had my second one on the way, I did not even want to try to have a vaginal delivery. I scheduled the c-section and was done with the delivery within 1.5 hours.
You are in pain after the delivery either way and I must say it was managable. My scar has healed well and I do not have any issues with it.
I understand you do not want a c-section, I just want to let you know, it is not the end of the world and whatever happens happens. Just be at peace with it.
Your baby is now in charge and he/she will be for the rest of your life:-)
Good luck to you!!

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Hi and good luck to your baby turning project!!! My first was breech and we tried EVERYTHING to get him to turn but I ended up with a c-section. The one care provider I've identified in the city who will do vaginal breech deliveries is Elias Sabbagha at Northwestern. I would contact him asap and have a consult. My midwives (at Northwestern) and the docs who work with them attempted an ECV for me at 37 weeks when I was pregnant with my son, but it was not successful. Still, I would give it a shot.

Oh - and send me a message - I have the Hypnobabies "Turn your Breech Baby - YES you can!" guided visualization CD. I actually got this when baby #2 ended up breech at 31 weeks (happily, she flipped before I got a chance to listen to it!) I'll mail it to you, or you can swing by and pick it up if you're in the city.

Don't konw who your chiro is but Dr. Sean Manning in Oak Park is The Guy to go to for Webster maneuver, I've been told. (I saw another, Dr. Nella at Bucktown Chiropractic, who I thought was quite good, though it didn't work for me. Still, I'd also recommend her).

Good luck to you!!! Although my first was a c-section, I had my second child this past summer - an awesome drug-free VBAC.

If you do end up scheduling a c/s, make a c-birth plan, ask for what you want, go through it with your doc/midwife ahead of time etc. (And know that it's OK to be disappointed in the whole thing. And then slap anyone who tells you, "At least you have a healthy baby - that's what matters." This is like saying, after a car accident in which you're badly injured, "at least you're not dead." True, but it misses the point.)

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I agree with one of the other mothers -- NO ONE WANTS a C-Section! I labored for almost 12 hours before finally agreeing to an epidural and then ended up with an emergency c-section because my son was in distress and his heart stopped at least 2 times while I was trying to push. I can't believe how easy the c-section was! I was in an operating room and had a baby in just about 5 minutes -- after laboring 12 hours with no pain medication! Then I worried about recovery, couldn't believe what a piece of cake that was. My girlfriend had a baby vaginally 2 weeks before me and she was still sore when I was released to drive and felt really good, with minimal discomfort. I think I didn't want a c-section because I felt like a failure, but guess what -- it will be scheduled next time, if there is a next time!! My friend had her first vaginally and had to have a c-section with her 2nd because that baby was breech and she talked to me about it after my son's birth (so not to scare me) and she agreed that the c-section was a whole lot easier than the vaginal delivery. Good luck to you!

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When we found out, a week before my due date, that my son was breech we debated very little about c-sections. My OB was open to the idea of a breech birth or the ECV but said she favored a c-section because of the danger to the baby (the OB group was in Chicago at IL Masonic Hospital). I had done tones of reading on the ECV and also saw a show on Discovery Health that showed the procedure. Seeing the ECV done was enough for me - yes it looked painful, but more importantly I thought it looked dangerous for the baby. The goal is to have a healthy baby and not be a hero or fulfill some dream of a natural childbirth that I may have had. I also wanted to be conscious when I gave birth unlike another reader that had to be put under when problems occurred during the ECV. The c-section I had was fine, yes it is surgery so it took longer to recover than a natural childbirth. Other than the recovery time, I really felt like any other mother postpartum. I was able to hold my son while they finished the surgery, breastfeed in the recovery room, my husband was there the whole time. Don't get hung up on this - my son is now 5 1/2 and at the time it seemed like a huge issue but looking back on it, we played it safe with a c-section, my son was born healthy and that decision was just a blip on the radar.

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I had a c-section with my first because she was breech. We tried the ECV before the c-section & it did not work. It was horrible. I would never try it again. My son came 2 years later via v-back. I have to tell you that the recovery from the vaginal birth was worse than my c-section. If I were to do it all over again I would not have fought so hard for a v-back.

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My daughter (almost 5 now) was breech. I did acupuncture and she finally turned on her own at week 34. I was induced because she never dropped and I never dilated. I was in labor for 2 days but I never dilated more than 4 centimeters. Several doctors who examined me kept telling me I had a small pelvis. The baby probably didn't have room to descend. Anyway, labor never progressed, my heart rate and my daughters heart rate went dangerously low. I was in and out of consciousness. I finally ended up having an emergency c-section.

I DID NOT want a c-section for several reasons. But ya know what? I have a healthy child now and healing wasn't all that bad. I got to stay in the hospital for 3 days and relax. C-sections really aren't horrible. I wouldn't risk trying to have your baby turned. There might be a reason the baby is in the position she is in.

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My daughter (who is now 3 1/2) was breech and I did the ECV. I wanted more than anything to be able to try to give birth naturally. The ECV is EXTREMELY painful...but I would do it again in a heartbeat. My daughter was unable to be born naturally. When they did the ECV, she would only move 1/4 turn and then her hearthrate plumeted. They said we need to do a c-section. I was hearbroken, but after she was born (I had to be put under because I am unable to get an epidural due to health reasons) they told me she had a short cord and it was wrapped around her neck. They said she wouldn't have turned and she would not have made it through a natural childbirth. PLEASE do not try to have a natural childbirth because you really want to, listen to the doctors. Yes, I still yearn for the day I would be able to see my daughter being born, but then I remember that she may not be here if I tried.

Definitely try the ECV - they can tell a lot from doing that. It is painful, but I would definitely do it again. I have spoken to other mothers who had it done and given birth naturally. Usually after a successful ECV they will induce labor to ensure the baby doesn't turn back.

I don't want to scare you but I want you to be aware that sometimes, c-sections are necessary - whether we want them or not. Good luck to you!

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Dr Maria Munoz in Chicago at Norweigan does vaginal breech deliveries I have heard. Good luck to you- the risk of delivering a complete or frank breech baby is lower than the risk of a c-section when done with a skilled provider.

Hi A..
Try Dr. Antonio J. Bravo. He's located in Elmhurst. ###-###-####
My situation was a little different. 12 years ago, I was having twins. We knew the entire pregnancy that one was head up, the other head down. (I had an ultrasound every month to watch their growth.) All through the pregnancy I was terrified just thinking of the possibilty of a c-section. (I'm really not sure why but I was.)
I did not appreciate just how great Dr. Bravo was until I went into labor. When I went into labor there was no question that we were going to deliver vaginally. After the first baby (head down) was delivered, the second (head up) turned sideways! It was quite amazing watching Dr Bravo manipulate the baby to the correct position!
It's going to be difficult for you to change doctors this late in the game. Good luck to you!!

I'm surprised with all your responses that no one has mentioned the Webster technique. it's a non-invasive chiropractic technique using, i think, pressure points and small adjustments to get the baby to move into the correct position. search it on the web and you should find at least a few chiropractors, depending on the area you're in. it's definitely worth a try... rather than externally forcing your baby to move.

I had really bad back labor, like a week of "can't sleep" that turned into a total nightmare.

I most likely had a breeched baby. I used a midwife, so it wasn't an issue. The good news is that I think most breeched babies turn before they are born, or turn while they are coming out, like mine did. So even if nothing works, it doesn't mean the baby won't turn before coming out.

I heard sitting on a pilate's ball for a few hours every day helps.

A., I tried EVERYTHING to get my little one to turn. In the end, even the ECV didn't work and we had to schedule a date for a C. I will admit to hating the C and taking some time to get over all of my feelings (despite the fact that it went perfectly, and the INCREDIBLE group of midwives I had and my wonderful husband, all of whom were my advocates each step of the process). I don't have any advice for you, but wanted to reassure you that you have a right to all of your feelings and that yes, a healthy baby is the goal but that doesn't negate your wishes or your feelings. Sorry, but reading lots of these responses got on my nerves a little :) Good luck to you. I'm aiming for a VBAC for my second!

Hi A., My second child was breech and a couple days before the due date my doc scheduled a version and induction at the hospital. The version was painful but worth it. After the version they broke my water and started the induction. 13 hours later my son was born! Even though it was my second child, they said because they had to induce, it took longer than it probably would have if I had started naturally. My docs are in Arlington Heights if you need more information.

I had a breech baby, by c-section. We tried the ECV and he was just too big to turn around. In my opinion, the ECV was the worst pain I had ever been in! Even my husband, who was present during the procedure, expressed concern. My doctor also prepped me for an emergency c-section, just in case. It wasn't necessary, thank goodness. I am just very wary of this procedure. Good luck with your decision, I am sure it will bethe right one for you!

Hi A.,
As a nurse midwife I am glad to hear that you tried all alternative options to rotate your baby. I do not think you will find an ob that will take you at 37 weeks with a breech presentation. Does your ob perform ECV? I would think so. I would go ahead with that. There are risks involved but it is a next step in the breech presentaion. Let me know how it goes.D.

Hi A.,
I carried twins to 37 weeks and one kept flipping. I tried chiro and acupuncture but what really seemed to do the trick was headstands in the swimming pool. (I had already been doing yoga and swimming). Unfortunately she would tuck and roll back over each time.

I was really not into a c-section --- I had delivered my first daughter vaginally, abdominal surgery is no fun, recovery + caring for twins sounded impossible, etc.

I ended up delivering my son vaginally and my daughter c-section. He was locked and loaded and came in 2 pushes, but she was sideways at the final hour and was very large (7lbs10oz) to try and manipulate her into position. Though I dreaded a c-section, it made more sense to me to have a calm c-section awake with the epidural than to risk a hectic emergency c-section which would require being knocked out.

Also worth saying, definitely your preferences are very important but it is also important to factor in the comfort level and experience of the person who will be delivering. My practitioner (Irma Sodini) was willing to try it but it was not her preference. Of course I ended up in labor while her colleague was on call - she was willing but even less enthusiastic about delivering a breech vaginally.

In my pregnancies I promised myself I'd stay flexible and I'm glad because I would have been really disappointed had I been super-invested in my original vision. None of my pregnancies/labor experiences have gone the way I'd hoped but they were all positive in their own way, and my kids are here and happy. -- good training for parenting too!

good luck to you!
-O

Hi A.,

as you know the one other thing you can do is NOT schedule and allow your body to go into labor naturally and give the baby every last opportunity to flip. People will argue they "run out of room" it's a load of "you know what" I carried twins to 39 weeks and my one baby flip flopped until hours before labor. I had long conversations and meditations with my twins and used visualization along with chiropractic, and accupuncture. There are alos pelvic tilt exercises you can do. I am new to the area. When I was interviewing people about my twin brith I ALWAYS asked if they had breech skills and when/if they would use them. I would contact the women of ICAN and some local midwives and find out some options! Good for you for for looking for otions. I hope your little one turns.

E.

Oh, I don't blame you for not wanting a c-section! (I had one and hated it, but love my baby girl!) go to www.breechbabies.com you may find something here that you have not tried. There is a midwife group in Oak Park that may be willing to deliver you. My one friend did tons of visualization and it worked for you, so hypnotherapy just may do it for you.

Good Luck and keep us posted!

Hi A.,
My story is not unlike a lot of the responses you've already gotten, but I just wanted to add to the group saying that a c-section is not the worst thing! I also tried EVERYTHING to turn my breech baby -- acupuncture, moxibustion, laying on a slanted board, meditation, chiropractor, etc. etc. I also tried the ECV -- it was extremely painful as mentioned, but only for a few moments at a time. My baby wasn't budging so the doctor said, "No one has to be a hero here. C-sections are safe and fine and the whole point of this is to have a healthy baby." My OB pointed out lots of risks with a vaginal birth and a breech baby (though she recommended the ECV so it's not like she wasn't in favor of a more natural birth when possible.) I still tried to get her to turn on my own, but no luck. I went into labor 3 days before the scheduled c-section, and while I wished that I could have tried out all my natural childbirth techniques, the consolation prize was that I got to the hospital at 6 PM and was holding my baby at 7:30! I asked lots of friends about what to expect from a c-section and got lots of good info. I recommend doing this. I have nothing to compare it to, but it was not a difficult recovery, not too painful. The doctor and nurses made the whole procedure a happy, joyous one. Really, the important thing is the healthy baby outcome, so keep your eyes on that prize if you do have to have one. And I'll say this too, once the baby was born, I could care less about how she got here! Best of luck to you.

PS:The group that handled the ECV for me was the high risk group at Evanston Northwestern Hospital in Evanston. They are fantastic. But I'm sure whatever high risk group you go to would also be fine. Just make sure they are experienced. Also, it is scary because they have an operating room all set up for you in case the procedure ruptures the placenta and you need an emergency c-section. So, it's not w/o risks. I have friends who have opted to not even try because of this. I think the whole situation is a good lesson in how having kids often doesn't go the way you think, requires putting their needs before your own, doesn't come with black and white guidelines, etc.! Good practice!

My ob gyn is Dr Pourtabib in Naperville. He has had considerable experience in delivering babies. I see him for annual checkups (last one in 2008) so I have not asked him about this again in 2009 but would check with his office on this topic. Office phone number is ###-###-####.

Have you tried the "breech tilt" position described in "Birthing from Within" (book available at amazon.com).

Yoga studio where I work in Naperville has book suggesting usage of peppermint essential oil rubbed gently on the abdomen. This book is for sale at the yoga studio (www.universalspirityoga.com). Also there are prenatal yoga classes - next class Tuesday at 7pm with Shannon and she can suggest some yoga positions for you.

I would suggest discussing what you plan to do with your healthcare provider so you are aligned as a team. I write these comments as a yoga teacher. I am not a doctor.

In the Chicago area, more resources available at www.birthlink.net

I heard the OBs out of Hinsdale are great and same with those out of UIC. One more thing, I am actually a certified HypnoBirthing instructor and help with visualization of the baby and different positions to use to try to get the baby to move. Have you tried hot and cold packs yet? That is alternating cold at the top of your belly and warm low. The idea is to have the baby turn away from the cold and down to the warm. Getting into a pool at your local Y or park district could help relieve some of the gravity in their allowing the baby some room to turn. Also, getting on your hands and knees and rocking may help give the baby more room to turn or laying in a "polar bear" position might help to create that extra room too. Just keep talking to your baby and keep visualizing the turn. Relax and stay as positive as you can. Babies have been known to turn even very late.

We had a successful ECV in 1995 with a great doctor who also did home births in the area for quite some time. His name is Fred Ettner. Don't know where he might be practicing right now, but he was at Forest Glen Hospital in Chicago back then.

It was over rather quickly. I was actually more terrified about getting an IV (in case something went wrong and we needed an emergency C-section). I was sore for a couple of weeks, but the baby's head stayed down. Much better than a C-section, indeed. I delivered naturally a few weeks later. I think my son just loved being inside so much, he had no intentions of coming out. Since he was my 4th, my muscles knew how to force the situation.

Hi A.,
I know you have many responses already but I think you should know this before you make your decision... my cousin's baby was breech as well and a week before the due date the baby still hadn't gone into position. The doctor suggested the ECV but my cousin refused and had a c-section instead. Thank God she made that decision. The baby had the umbilical cord wrapped very tightly around his neck and very close to the placenta, so even if the baby tried to move, he wasn't able to. He was being "held" like a dog on a leash. Another thing, if they had attempted the ECV, the baby would have been strangulated. No need to mention that the vaginal delivery would have been a tragedy as well. Although ultrasound was performed, the cord around the baby's neck wasn't showing. So please, consider the risks and remember that the most important thing is a healthy baby and a healthy mother. My cousin is doing wonderfully, and so is the baby.

Hi A.,

First, I can completely relate to your not wanting a c-section. I was the exact same way and made myself crazy worrying about it and doing everything I could to not have one. (Yoga, birthing classes, a doula, etc.) There's some great suggestions for turning your baby here and I really truly hope that they work.

I know there's a lot of responses here but in regards to a c-section I felt one issue was left out; Of course you're going to do whatever it takes to have a healthy baby because you're a smart person with their priorities in order. But the thing no one mentions is that even if you do end up with a c-section there is a certain amount of grief in not having the kind of birth you wanted even if you're baby is perfect. That is completely natural and I think you should be allowed that grief. So if no one gives you permission then I will.

When my daughter was finally born it was by a c-section, after an extremely painful and 46 hour labor. As frightened as I was about having the c-section by the time she arrived I was so relieved and happy to meet her I didn't care. BUT...there was that unavoidable sorrow at not having the kind of birth I envisioned. So people may react in an irritating fashion by saying something along the lines of "You've got nothing to complain about, she's healthy! Just be grateful." Of course you will be grateful. I certainly was. But I knew I was only having one child so I still felt robbed of the experience.

I guess I'm saying you can feel grateful and still feel a sense of loss and that is perfectly ok. When people try to talk you out of your feelings you end up feeling even worse because now you feel guilty too. So to that I say, I wish you the best and hope you have a fantastic birth. But should you need a c-section just know that you did the right thing, and you're allowed to feel lousy about it for awhile. And don't let anyone make you feel worse.

Let us know what happens!

I know two people who had this done the baby turned on its own AFTER they tried this .. neither mom to be was prepared how HARD they push on your abdamon