Boys Will Be boys....or It Is More than That? (Am I a "Pyscho-mom?")

At this age, your son needs to start speaking up for himself..

When kingpin says ""come on, let's go inside without him" " don't anybody pick him on your team" " lets not go to the pool with him"

Your son needs to say, "Hey guys, that is not fair." Or "Hey, You all can play with whoever you want." "You do not have to do what he tells you."

Until your son proves he will not be pushed out, excluded, bullied.. These other "followers" are going to continue to follow this kingpin around.

They fear that guy will turn on them, when in reality "Kingpin" is afraid of being excluded.

Work with your son, but try not to interfere when others are around unless there is a physical attack.

I will admit in our neighborhood with all of the girls, if we overheard this type of behaviors, we would sometimes, say, "Hey ladies, those do not sound like friendly voices.."

Our daughter always did well when we could read about a situation and then talk about it. Go to the Book store or the library and see if you can find some books, that speak about Bullying and how your son can handle these situations.
Here is one book that really helped in lots of situations. check it out.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Rude-Teenagers-Behavior-Grossin...

Even though the title says teenagers, I purchased this book when our daughter was in 4th grade.

This is the borderline age when parents have to start to step back, but also give the kids the skills to deal with situations. There's a fine line between "leaders" and 'bosses" - and sometimes kids who are bossy really like to eliminate anyone who challenges their self-appointed position as the one in charge. The two boys are not the only problem though - the other kids who are so submissive that they follow one bossy, authoritative kid and are willing to be cruel and exclusionary also need plenty of work. So, your son needs to learn to articulate what's wrong with this picture, and he needs to encourage teamwork among the whole group. THAT'S true leadership.

If you don't have trouble with other groups of kids, you might want to look into whether or not those are groups of followers who defer to your son's leadership, and so your son is kind of the kingpin of those groups. Or, they are balanced groups of friends and this neighborhood group is the dysfunctional one. It's hard to know if your son is truly "difficult" or if the other mom means that her son doesn't get his own way all the time.

So, because this group is the neighborhood and you aren't going to tell your son not to participate, your son needs to find ways to deal with it. He should talk to the other boys with Kingpin is not there, either in a group or in twos or threes. Find out how they feel when these situations arise, and whether he's been too bossy or whether they are afraid to stand up to Kingpin and would rather just acquiesce. And if the latter, why? Are they afraid of him? Or do they think he's right. You son might learn ways to adjust any offensive behavior, OR the other boys might realize what this is doing to your son and decide to strategize things they can say the next time Kingpin tries to isolate you. "Come on, let's all find something we can do together" or "I'm not leaving anyone out. We can all go inside together" might carry some weight. Kingpin is engaging in bullying and it's been allowed to go on for 2 years, so the habits are very ingrained.

You're not crazy. You love your son very much and hate to see him so upset. But this is not the only person to cross paths with your son that he will clash with. You can't fight this battle FOR him - truthfully, that will only make things worse. What you CAN do is arm him with strategies to cope and deal with KingPin on his own.

You probably don't have problems with other kids because the other kids fall into what your son wants - you said yourself he's a leader. But KingPin is ALSO a leader and it's often very hard for a natural leader to follow another. That's why these two are clashing so much.

As much as your son needs to learn how to stand up for himself, he also needs to learn the invaluable art of compromise. They don't always HAVE to clash about stuff. Why can't your son *sometimes* go along with what KingPin wants??? I'm not saying he should always cave in to what this other boy wants, but sometimes someone has to step up and be the bigger person to avoid unnecessary conflict. Teach your son that it doesn't make him weak; but in fact makes HIM the strong one. Anyone can be petulant about not getting their way, but it takes a strong person to set aside their *wants* for the moment for the good of the group. I'm sure those other boys playing don't like being put in the middle of their two friends, right? So if he does give in sometimes, he's not just catering to KingPin, but he's taking that stress and pressure off his other friends. And THAT makes him more of a leader than just being bossy and manipulative.

You aren't crazy, but you are getting too involved.

Your job is to teach your son to successfully navigate social situations, even tough ones. And then step back and let him do it. Chips will fall where they may.

I suggest parenting with Love and Logic (check out the book!). Listen to him, mentor him, but let him deal with the outcomes. If he cries, or doesn't stand up for himself, you can further mentor him, but don't try to fight his battles for him.

As for the "difficult" comment....the two boys are difficult personalities TOGETHER. Your son should look elsewhere for friends. It's not one boy or the other who is the problem, it's both.

What has always worked for my daughter (who is a leader too) is to talk with her about different strategies she can use when the situation comes up. When she was younger we would play act it out with dolls, she got to be a doll that was herself, and I would pretend to be the other kid. We would try different strategies, and I would usually try to let her come up with the solutions and then we'd play them out. I'd try to be as real as possible when I was the other kid so she could see what might work and what might not. When we found one that she liked we would practice it with the dolls, and then we'd practice it without the dolls with her being herself and me being the other kid. This was always done lightheartedly when she wasn't upset about it. It always ended with her feeling a LOT better about it and the practice helped her actually carry out the actions confidently. Now that she's older we don't use dolls anymore, we just play act it out.

The other child is acting that way because your son lets him. Perhaps you can work out some strategies with your son to handle this? He can learn to be a better leader as well.

My daughter used to be bossy. I won't deny it! And when the other kids didn't do what she wanted, she'd sulk and leave and sit alone. This made the other kids not want to play with her, and consequently she didn't have hardly any friends. It didn't help that her dad would defend her and say "Those other kids are horrible, you don't want to be friends with them anyway!" So I had to teach her how to be a better leader. How to LISTEN to the other kids, how to COMPROMISE, and how to INSPIRE instead of be bossy. We did this with the dolls like I said above, and sometimes I would be her and say the things that she would say so that she could see how it sounded to other kids.

My daughter listens to her friends now (she is 12) and she isn't bossy, she has learned how to suggest things and how to compromise.

Perhaps you can teach your son those things so he can butt heads less with KingPin. Also, you can help him come up with strategies on what to do (besides come home crying) when KingPin tries to take his friends away. Probably the best thing to do is to confront KingPin with what he is doing and say "KingPin, why are you trying to get these other friends of mine to not play with me? That's not very nice. Can't we all find something to play together?" Bullies rarely like being called out!

Good luck to you! You obviously love your son a lot. I don't think the answer is to step in directly, but to give your son the tools to handle it himself.

Glad to see your SWH. This isn't just a boy thing, girls do it too, and it's your son's battle, not yours or the other mom's. He needs to learn how to assert himself, not physically but socially. Talking to him about how to stand up for himself and say NO when something is wrong or not right is so important. It's also okay for him to walk away when other kids are being jerks (another life lesson!)

Your son does have to learn how to handle social situations like this. If the other mother won't handle her son then the best thing you can do is A.) be thankful that it's not physical bullying. It's mild bullying by exclusion, but still bullying. This mom isn't handling it because her son should be allowed to play with whomever he chooses. What makes it inappropriate is that he's encouraging the other children in the neighborhood to exclude your son.

B.) Your son needs to learn to stick up for himself. C.) He needs to learn to be persuasive himself. And maybe learn that if one group of boys won't play with him or hang out with him, it's time to seek out a different group of boys. This boy? he's no longer your son's friend D.) I would encourage him to stop trying to hang out with him.

Ugh...I see this so much with the girls. My daughter had a similar situation with a girl she became friends with, only her friend wanted to keep her away from all of her other friends. So instead of ganging up on her with a bunch of other girls, she would say things like " let's just play by ourselves," or "let's make up a secret game" so my daughter only played with her all the time. She'd also say things like... " the other day when you played with so-and-so, I felt so sad, I just wanted to cry all day." Girls have much more manipulating way with words than boys do, usually. Sure enough, the day came when the girl decided that she'd like to play with someone else and dumped my daughter the same way she had dumped the friend before her.

I had lots of talks with my daughter about what kind of friend she wants to be and what kind of people she wants to be friends with. And we did some role playing about how to handle different situations that would come up.

Kingpin sounds like a bit of a bully, but he also has enough charisma that other kids want to follow him or they don't want to be left out. No doubt that if your son hears something that sounds unfair then others do too. So teach your son to speak up for himself. And teach him how to compromise about who is it. That doesn't mean that either he or Kingpin need to be "it" all the time. He could nominate someone else in the group!

Leaders aren't always the ones who lead the group and make all of the rules. They are the ones that play fairly and inspire others, not exclude kids. If your son can show the other kids a way to keep the games fun without arguing and making all of the decisions with Kingpin they will want to follow him~ not the bully.

Here's my read: That your son is fine but that he and KingPin have reached a point where they are no longer compatible. What *I* would do is talk to my son. How does he react? How could he react? What could he say other than to just be upset that his friends are going to ignore him? Does he ever talk to the boys when KP isn't around about why they go off with KP instead? And does he have friends outside this crew that he could invite over instead of being caught up in KP's power games? You can't control KP. You can only encourage your son do behave in a way that works better for him.

In general, neighborhood kids are good playmates...except when they aren't. I'd send my son out and not let KP make him cower inside, if your son wants to go out. Your son can't avoid everybody he doesn't get along with and he might do better to go visit another good friend or two specifically vs trying to be a part of KP's games.

I don't think you're psycho. But I do think you are trying to manage the wrong kid. Give your kid words and strengths and worry less about KP unless he takes bullying to the classroom or something. I wouldn't talk to the mom again unless KP punched your kid or was bullying him online.

You say your son is "difficult". Difficult how? That may be something to look at.

FWIW, my SD was "best friends" with a girl for many years. In early HS they had a falling out. SD wouldn't even go to the pool if that girl was going to be there. We ignored it. We told SD that she doesn't have to like the girl but she could not be rude and she had to accept that we (and other friends) did not feel the same way. We still said HI when we saw the family out and about. The kids may never be friends again, but we still consider them to be good neighbors.

i'm with your friend. i WOULD work with my son on coping techniques so that he wasn't constantly upset enough to come home crying. you don't have to tell him to stay out of the games, just teach him alternate ways of handling conflicts.
good luck, mama!
khairete
S.

You have received a lot of great advice. Kingpin doesn't deserve your son's friendship, and his mother doesn't deserve your friendship!

I would start inviting some of the boys over to play at your house, or in your yard and leave Kingpin out. Maybe a taste of his own medicine will straighten him and his mother out.

My son is also almost 11 and we have had some issues with the boys on our street. I have just said stuff directly to the other kids. My son usually comes home and tells me what happened and I go outside and gather everyone around, listen to everyone and then come to a conclusion about it and everyone goes on their merry way...until next time of course. lol So if I were you, I would say something to kingpin directly AND give your son the tools to deal with him when you aren't there. Good luck!

Let the other mom do whatever she feels is right for her son. Look out for yours.
You might have known them forever but this doesn't mean you'll stay friends forever. It may be a phase, or it may be that they are growing apart. Tell your son that if playing with KingPin is going to hurt him, it is best if he played with some other friends. It seems there are enough kids to play with.

There really isn't anything you can do but be there for your son when he comes home crying. They are way too old for you to be getting involved. IMHO, if you do get involved, you are going to make things worse for your son because he'll be teased about running home crying to mommy.

Just tell him you are sorry that happened; that kingpin tries to make him (your son) sad because he's not a happy person himself and misery loves company. Assure him that it will pass and remind him that there are many other kids he can play with.

Hi! It's a touchy situation dealing with other peoples' kids especially when the childs' parent is unreasonable, and it sounds like KingPins' mother is. I would never allow my son (11) to hurt someone else's feelings or gang up people against soemone else. If I were KingPins' mother, I would feel grateful for you bringing it to my attention (embarrased but none the less grateful - hey, no one is perfect and as hard as we try to raise good kids they are going ot do what they want sometimes) and if my son would not stop then he wouldn't be allowed to play outside. I'm sorry she isn't being cooperative, but sometimes it's like that.

I agree with much of what has already been said but wanted to let you know that I think it is ok that you finally mentioned it to the mom. My daughter has had a similar situation with a girl she has known going on 7 years--so much of what you said sounds like our girls! They are both very much alike (natural leaders, always wanting to be the one talking and taking charge in a group) and butt heads frequently. But then the next day they are friendly and just fine.

Recently, there was a situation where several other moms were telling me they had heard that my daughter and this other girl do not get along and they weren't sure about having the two of them together in social outings outside of school where they wanted to include them both but were not sure how things would go. Now, I will say in 1st grade they did have a lot of issues and we took a 'break' from her with playdates, etc. This girl just had a mouth and attitude that I didn't want my daughter around at the time, but she has matured and things got better over the years between them--or so I thought. So after sitting by for a couple of years hearing this conversation from *other* moms, I called the mom out on it. I said this was crazy and I thought the girls had moved on because I know I had--for goodness sakes, it had been 6 years! I feel so much better for it because I was tired of us being always the one that received the blame for the "issues" when really it they both played a role. And since my daughter also has lots of other friends with rare similar issues, I figured it is just the dynamic between the two of them. Ever since then, thing have been way better actually between the girls and the mother I called!