An Apology (& Question!) to My Post "Preschooler Attracted to the Trouble Maker"

I was one who wasn't offended and face the same type of problems. As my daughter came home with one of the worst colors yesterday. And I point out that my daughter is NOT innocent but she is definitely easily influenced. And once again I reminded her that when in school/class environment to be careful who she sits/stands/walks with as its highly likely she'll be getting in trouble too. The particular boy she got in trouble with I had brought his name up at parent/teacher conference and my daughters teacher admitted lots of parents bring his name up. So yes, I agree with the fact some kids are better influences than others and I don't see anything wrong with pointing that out to my child. However, I did remind her that at recess go ahead and have all the fun/sillyness she wanted with all of her friends.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with what you said in your other post. I don't think you were badmouthing the girl. She causes trouble in the classroom. It is what it is. That doesn't make her a bad child. I don't think you were insinuating that she is a bad child.

There is nothing wrong with asking the teacher to separate them because your daughter is picking up her habits to cause problems in the classroom.

As far as how old she needs to be, she is not too young for you to talk about appropriate behavior. You don't need to talk to her about her friend. You need to talk instead about the behavior. It's all about the behavior.

Dawn

I didn't see your original question but I can tell you I've had the same concern in preschool with my son, and he's only 3 and a half. He's the kid who always walks away from trouble and is overly polite on the playground (he's the kid standing at the top of the slide letting every other kid push past). Anyway, I think it is important to talk with your kids about these things, but as you know already, to never really "condemn" or talk bad about another child, to your own child.

My son is exhibiting a bunch of new, bad behaviors, since starting preschool and I know it's partly because of another child in his class (his teacher and this child's mother even agree it's a problem). This child will hit my son (now my son hits me) and he's really disruptive in class, which my little rule follower can't handle (they will often fight because my son is being bossy, trying to get him to follow the rules). And yet, they play together every school day. The other boy often seeks out and follows my son around class, so we talk about their interactions often.

Anyway, I try to practice as much empathy as possible when talking about this boy, even though I can't stand the fights it's causing us at home. I remind my son that this boy is only seeking attention and he has the option to either give him attention or walk away. It's surprising how well he understands this simple explanation.

His teachers are also really good about supporting this idea and reinforcing each child's "right" to say, "I don't want to play with you right now." We also talk about how maybe this boy needs a friend, but again, that it's never OK to hit and that my son should never accept this behavior or engage in retaliation (that's the next step, I'm certain).

Good luck to you!

I did not get to your first question, but I will tell you this--Mamas on this board latch on to ONE word and they forget about answering the question at hand and just attack the word...

I would not worry about the bad crowd, as the bad crowd may be the very ones to defend your child against the brutality of the brats, brainiacs, busters...

i didn't read your previous post but just wanted to say i have no trouble telling my kids
that kid is bad news, don't hang out with him/her. i have no problem saying that kid lies a lot, or is a mean kid. what's wrong with that? i don't have time to sugar coat anything to anyone.

Some responders me sometimes as well are very direct in our responses. its not ment to make you feel bad but to show a different way of looking at it. Don't take any of it to heart but remember you didnt like how you felt and had to appologize how do you think the trouble maker would feel because she is being labeled just like you were. Again what is put is not ment to offend but to just get you to think.,

For what its worth I thought that your question was fine. I fully realized what you were getting at and have felt that way myself about kids from time to time. You will always find the politically correct police who want to criticize things like this. But I have to add-EXCEPT when it is an issue that THEY believe in.

You are right to be diligent about monitoring who your kids spend time with. I have even requested not to be in certain kids classes that I did not feel were a good influence on my sons. I make no apologies about this either. I have seen firsthand now that my older son is 11 how detrimental bad relationships can be for a kid. The boys in my neighborhood who have formed them-kids who used to be so sweet and at the same level as my son-are practically delinquents right now in the fifth grade.

this is around the age we started these conversations, actually.

it's the age when they really start making friends and exploring the "outside" world more.

when i first started seeing my child being bossed around (bullied) by an older neighborhood kid, we started talking about how NO ONE gets to be mean - it's not just him that has to be good. if there are other kids that are being mean, we don't want to be around them. when they can be nice, then we will play with them. i said these things in front of the child too. i wanted all involved to know that my son deserved better. it worked at the time. the older child knew if i was around she had better behave. although, she was like 6-7 to my son's 4, at the time.

i think it's always good to tell them how to handle difficulties. at this age it is a lot of, "if sally isn't going to be nice, you don't have to play with her. no one gets to be mean to you. you're too special for that. you go play with bobby until sally is ready to play nice."

kids' friendships are fluid a lot of times especially at this age. the kid who was "mean" last week will be their bff, then you'll go back to hearing "i don't like her she's mean." they may not be bad kids (although from your question it sounds like this little one has a history of less-than-great behavior) but they might just disagree with how to play tag.

one time my son came inside crying, all upset and saying all the kids outside were mean and he hated them and he was never playing with them again (or something similarly over-dramatic). when i started asking questions, i found out that little jimmy wanted to play power rangers while my son wanted to play transformers, and this was the result of their disagreement. wow. earth-shattering stuff. but you'd have thought they had held him down and beat him, as wounded as he was acting.

99% of the time i tell the kids to work it out themselves. as long as someone isn't being physically hurt, i do believe it's best for them to learn to get along on their own. but i do impress on my son (along with good behavior for himself) that others should be good too, and if they're not - he doesn't need to be around them.

ETA- ok looked at your first question (and answered). i think that some moms might be a little over-sensitive and really seem to be TRYING to find fault with YOU in that scenario. don't sweat it. you're not a bad person. you didn't need to apologize. a couple of those answers were unnecessarily snarky. i would wonder the same things if i was in your shoes.

but it will all work out. your daughter will be fine.

No, I don't. My daughters are 6 and 8. The 6 year old is autistic but also ADHD so this pertains more to my 8 year old.

I grew up hearing my grandmother spit up the adage, "Tell me who your friends are and I will tell you who you are." Even as a young child, this does not sum up for me. I am steadfast with my belief that I am my own person and not a mirror or an extension of someone else. If I have not walk in that person's shoes, who am I to say that the decisions he/she has made is unequivocally wrong.

When it comes to my children, I hope that I have taught them well enough to know what is right regardless of the company they keep. To rule out friendships with another child simply because he is "unruly" or disruptive is not acceptable to me or my daughter. She knows not to judge people and has displayed behaviors more mature than most adults I have met (including myself). I have always told her to be kind because the kid who may display those so called questionable behaviors may have issues beyond their control.

She does see the good in people but is by no means a push over. One day while on a play date, my daughter came to me with tears in her eyes. Apparently, her bestie called her sister annoying and this hurt her so much. When she regained her composure, she told the other girl that she was hurt by what she said and that if she is annoyed by her sister then they can not be friends. The girl did apologize and they are again best friends =).

When she gets older, I have to approach the situation as it happens. I am hoping that she will be the type of person who can influence her peers in a positive way and not the one who can be swayed to do the undesirable (whatever that is.)

Oh honey, please don't apologize. I was the second response in your other thread and I commented about your usage of labeling a small child as a troublemaker. But I wasn't offended. I tried to be gentle. I'm sorry that you felt attacked enough to have to apologize.

You have no need to apologize, okay? We all worry about our children and the influences that surround them when we're not there. We just have to remember that OUR influence is the most important one in their lives and trust that when we're not there to micro-manage, they'll still hear our voices in their ears and show us that by the time they have to make important decisions, they have a conscience.

Well, I don't think there's a "bad crowd" yet, but yes, I totally understand what you mean- I spend a lot of time around my son's (same age as yours) classmates and there are certainly some kids who's behaviors I'd rather he copy than others. I do talk to him about it at times in 2 ways- We have talked about how people are good at different things, like he is good at following the rules but for other kids controlling their bodies is more difficult (such as his brother!) I think that helps him understand that he has challenges too, it's not that these other kids are bad or not trying, etc. The other thing that we do talk about once every so often is what makes a good friend. If it comes up in a book or a story he's relating from school I'll try to push that lesson in. Such as it's nice to be friends with kids who like to do the same things you do, it's also nice to learn about new things from friends, good friends don't want you to do things that aren't good for you, etc. In fact, just today my son (5) watched Rodulph and afterward said (unsolicited by be) "This movie teaches a lesson- you shouldn't make fun of people who are different. That difference might make them good at something different. And it's not nice." So maybe it's rubbing off!

My daughter is the social butterfly, pied piper, peacemaker and trouble maker rolled into one, depending on what point in the day you're observing. Since she receives some occupational therapy during the day, I am at the school at odd times in the day to take her to appointments. What I've observed is that pretty much ALL pre-k kids are at social butterflies, pied pipers, peacemakers and trouble makers at some point. Some may be more intense than others, but I think all of them have some amount of that in them. They are rapidly developing little sponges at this age and have a lot of growing and developing to do. They also call each other mean and bossy daily, fight and make-up daily, etc. Your daughter is very likely to decide that she and M are best friends before noon tomorrow. I suspect that a preschool teacher does not want to have kids not like each other or refuse to sit next to each other. A good preschool teacher knows the kids personalities enough to know which kids play off of each other in which ways so that they can manage seating, etc. It's not something a parent should really worry about too much at this age. If you don't like M, then don't have playdates with her or encourage friendship outside of school. However, at school, let it be what it will be.

I hate having to be politically correct just to appease others. It might sound prettier to some ears, but not fully identify the problem at hand. That said...
You will find that your daughter will gravitate towards other kids with similar tasted, attitudes, conduct, as hers. This was her first challenge, and, to me, she passed with flying colors!

We try to frame it as good vs. bad choices. What friends are making good choices - suggest she hang out with them. But, that's not always easy - especially when the kid in question always makes poor choices, but might be a good kid otherwise. I think you have to go with your gut. Do you know the girl at all?

My middle daughter learned the hard way that mom has a good sense of who is good friend material and who isn't. I won't go into the dirty details, but the end result is all my daughters ask me for my opinion on their friends.

Keeping the lines of communication open is key.

Good question. My boys are older, 8 and 15 in a couple of weeks. I have generally let them choose their own friends through the years, but have tried to gently guide them (when they were younger) by having them consider how others were treating them. I think that is the most important factor in friendship.

Friends should treat each other with kindness and respect, and you should respect them in return. If they are behaving in a way that causes you to lose respect for them, then perhaps there is a problem (or perhaps they have just made a bad decision, as we all do from time to time). If they are constantly making bad decisions that cause you to lose respect for them, then maybe it's time to find new friends. Overall, I have liked my son's friends.

After re-reading the responses in your other thread, my reaction was,

1. Yes, you can absolutely tell when your child is more of a "follower" than a leader. Even in preschool. It doesn't mean that you have to say it to their face, but it's important to identify and know.

2. With that in mind, it's also important to start teaching your little follower that the people they are inclined to follow aren't always going to make the best choices. That they should only associate with people of high moral and ethical values. Of course, you have to put this in age appropriate language...but you wouldn't know to have these conversations if you didn't first identify that child as being more inclined to follow instead of taking the lead.

So, as far as your question goes, I do worry about my kids choosing to hang with the less than desirable crowd. And, knowing my kids the way I do, I'm going to ensure that we have an ongoing dialogue about choosing to do what is RIGHT, not what is popular.

At a young age, you'll find that it's not really long conversation. One or two statements. "Kiddo, you know that you don't have to do what she tells you to do. You don't have to play with someone when they are being bossy or rude." Or, as they get older, "Kiddo, if you don't like being talked to that way, you have to tell him to stop. And you don't have to stay there and play or share your things with them. You can say 'no.'"

As my boys are 10 and 11, conversations are a lot more involved...but they still happen, because our kids need our assistance in navigating social situations in a healthy, non-dramatic way. They need to learn to place boundaries and enforce them. The kids who never learn how to place boundaries and enforce them are the ones who end up in uncomfortable situations.

Best of luck!

♥
C. Lee

I am very relieved to hear that you'd never speak in terms of "trouble maker" when speaking with your daughter about some of the challenging kids in her class. I admit that I am hypersensitive to this issue, because I HAVE overheard my son being called a trouble-maker by an adult, and when a loud whispered "stay away from him" remark that followed. I just wanted to offer you the perspective of the parent of the "trouble maker," and point out that the child might actually be a very lovely child, who happens to have some issues.

Yes, kids in the early grades tend to work these things out for themselves--if they are getting in trouble together at school, they'll both be punished. Sooner or later, the "good" kid will naturally pull away, as long as he/she has other kids to turn to instead.

My son actually recently told me he doesn't want to hang around with his cousin anymore, as when they're together my nephew is very physical and bossy, and picks on my son (and it seems to be deliberate, not an impulse-control problem.)