Am I Overreacting???????? - South Weymouth,MA

I would call the Dr b/c if she is leaking loose stool then she is probably very constipated. has it been a while since she had a normal BM? If that is the problem they may put her on medication to get her cleaned out and then go from there. Good luck.
C. P.

I would ask the pediatrician about encoparesis. Your daughter may be holding onto stool to to point of impaction/with discomfort. Some scheduled fiber/regularity to training (first thing of the day after breakfast would probably be nice for you) My sister did a reward of play station and no leaving the house until a timed (10-15 minutes) on the potty. After that it was OK to wear a diaper, but no play station. The play station reward was enough to get him going on cue, but the fiber made things more predictable and easier on him. There were a couple of "blowouts" in the tub, at the grocery but things go to the point where he would ask for the morning fiber. He was 4 too. Good luck.

Hey there Amy,

Nope..not overreacting...just frustrated and with good reason. Contacting your doc wouldn't hurt, but it sounds like it might not be a medical issue..although, I'm not a doctor so like I said it can't hurt to contact one. Like you said, she is stubborn, to me it sounds to me like she is just playing a power game with you and your hubbie. My suggestion is to just keep reminding her that she needs to "poop" in the potty and not in her pants so that her "bum-bum" won't hurt. I know it's not the answer you are looking for, but being consistant and just pushing through this tough time..she will follow. Believe me, I know....I have an older son who is stubborn as can be! As far as the issue of another child, well,... my hubby and I struggled with that issue from when our oldest was born. Our oldest didn't sleep through the night until he was 8-1/2 months old and we wanted our children very close in age, so it took us until our son was 2 yrs old to start trying again. Lucky for us our 2nd son was born about 10-1/2 months later! I would go for another child....we did and things are working out just fine... :)

Just remember---life is a journey and nothing ever stays the same! :) Good luck!!

I have a stubborn one too. He always has to do things his own way on his own schedule. He cannot be bribed either. He's five and we are just starting to get him to have his BMs in the toilet despite being pee trained very well for for more than a year.

I do think you should talk to your pediatrician. It sounds like she is holding back and that is possibly interfering with her system. The looseness would concern me. Having a BM in the tub is not uncommon if she has been holding on to it, the warm water gets things moving.

There is something called Potty University and I think the child has to be 4. I know a friend who did this with their child who was having similar issues to yours and it did the trick. Ask your pediatrician for a recommendation.

We have a similar problem with my son, who just turned 4. We have tried charts, gifts, books, movies the works, but to no avail. He doesn't have the leaky poop, though. It sounds like something that you should look into. We recently started something new with our potty training. It may sound harsh, but I think that it is starting to work. When he poops in his pants he is responsible for cleaning up. First he must remove his own pants and underwear even if there is poop down his legs. Then he has to shake the poop into the toilet. Then he has to wipe himself. I only help him verbally with this in a relaxed, matter of fact and gentle way. Finally he has to put his underwear and pants into the hamper if they aren't soiled with poop. Then he has to wash his own hands and get dressed. Of course, I make sure that he is completely clean when he is finished. Yesterday, we went through this process. He cried but followed through. It was particularly messy. Afterward he said he would poop in the potty from now on. Hopefully he will. If not, we will continue with this. He really didn't care about pooping in his pants when we took care of all the cleaning.
This is hard at first. He would cry for me to change him. I just said, "you chose to poop in your pants, so now you need to clean it up." Sometimes he would refuse. So I had him go in the bathroom. I said, " you let me know when you are ready to remove your pants." Then I would go into the next room. I could still see and hear him. If I stood there with him in the bathroom, he would just whine or cry for me to change him. Now he tries to engage me in conversation while I'm in the other room. I just say, "We can talk about that after you take care of your mess. Let me know when you are ready". Sometimes he will be in that bathroom for 20 minutes before removing his pants, but I don't give it. I do remind him that he will have a rash if he lets it sit. I have given him a bath after he has finished cleaning himself if necessary. If you decide to try this with your daughter, I would have her clean herself, then give her a corn starch bath. My son has been getting good at dressing himself with all of the practice!
Also when we first started this it was gradual First we just had him shake the poop into the potty. He didn't like it, but got used to it. Then we started with the independent hand washing. Finally the new addition of wiping on his own. This is what has really made pooping in the pants unpleasant. I have been telling him that when he poops in the potty he will only have a little bit to clean up.
Try to remember not to yell at her. Try to keep the emotion out of the situation.

Good luck! If you try this and have questions along the way. Write back.
E.

As several people mentioned, it sounds like a constipation and control thing. We have an 11-year-old who used to have very similar problems. The leakiness tends to be an issue with constipation. We tried to explain to our son that if it hurts when he poops, it is probably a very hard stool. But if he holds it in, it will get even harder.

If I understand my biology correctly, the longer a stool remains in one's system, the longer it has for the liquids to be absorbed into the body, and the harder it becomes. Then it becomes so hard that subsequent liquids can't be absorbed, and they leak around the hard stool, causing what appears to be diarrhea. That irritates the skin which makes it even more painful to poop. It's a vicious cycle!

Sometimes it would hurt so bad, we would hug our son while he was on the potty and just talk him through it. "I know it really hurts, sweetie. But if you get it out of you, it will feel a whole lot better." A lot of soothing talk, and some tears, would get us past it. Sometimes, too, we'd have "grunt fests" to try to help get it out...okay, one, two, three, RRRRRRR!

I have no doubt some of it was a control issue as well. My husband insisted that our son have a bowel movement at least once a day. If he hadn't pooped during the day, one of us would read to our son while he sat on the potty (for sometimes WAY too long!) in the evening. I'm not sure I can fully recommend this method but one thing was true. If he had at least one BM a day, it was less apt to get impacted.

To this day, it is a continual fight with our son to get enough fruit and vegetables into him to keep things moving. But that is the key. When he was little, I would make sure he drank some juice, sometime during the day, to keep things moving. Grapes, too, were the great regulator for him. He loved them...and we learned to love him loving them, too...lol! I can't tell you how many hours we have spent plunging our toilet, through the years, when our son has plugged up the darn thing!

Anyway, a little love and understanding and hugs when you feel like screaming can be a big help. I've been there! Potty time and meal time are two of the main areas where kids have the most control, even if we wish it weren't so. Take a big breath and try some hugs! And it certainly never hurts to consult with the doctor for other tips.

Best of luck!

I do not think you are overreacting. My son was a little over three when he was trained, but he could have done it earlier. He was too stubborn to do it. It was a control thing. He knew when he had to go poo. While wearing a pull up he would say he had to go, and then go into a closet or another room. I finally told him that we are going to the store to let him pick out underpants and he will start wearing them the next day. He fought at first, but I told him that we weren't going to go out until he put them on. He did really well until he got bigger and I took away the pee guard. He held it is so long that he messed his pants and vomited. I don't know if I am correct, but I think that it is a control issue. They are always trying to control the situation. I don't know if this is the right advice, but I would either take away one of her favorite toys or make her stay in a time out until she goes in the toilet.

We had a sleeping issue too. My son go in the habit of getting up at night and wanted me to go in and bring him into my bed. At first it was because he had a cold, then it became every night. I tried to let him cry. At first 45 minutes then 1 hr. I gave in and that was my mistake. We all needed our sleep and it won't stop until you stop it. I had to let my son cry for 3 hours. He slept for 3 and woke up and cried for 3 more. It was the worsrt. The second night he cried again for three hours again. Then that was it. It will be really hard for a short time, but it was worth it in the end. I hope this helps.

This is a CONTROL issue......my son was the same way....trained to pee by 3 but absolutely would not poop in the toilet. My pediatrician offered some suggestions but also said to let it go...this was clearly something he needed to be in control of (as far as deciding when he was going to finally poop in the potty). One thing he recommended and we tried with success was letting him poop in a Pull Op....he would wear underwear all day and was told when he had to poop he could go and put on his pullup and poop in that - this actually worked and saved me from cleaning yucky underpants. It also gave him CONTROL of when and where he pooped. My son was also a first born and I think they often test us the most. Your frustration is coming through so clearly in your note....I'm sure your daughter is picking up on it which just gives a stubborn child more resolve to do it HER way. Once we let up on it a bit and stopped pushing the issue he finally came around days before his 4th birthday and never turned back. BTW my son never pooped at school or when we were out and about...he had complete control of his bowels and would wait until tub time (the tub relaxes those muscles so yes we had plenty of poops in the tub too) or he would do it right before bed when he was using a Pull Up to go to sleep or he would do as the doctor suggested and get a a Pull Up, put it on and poop in it. She will come around but I think if you ease up on her and let her decide when the time is right you will have success.

I had the same issue with my son (who is also VERY stubborn and has the same sleeping issues as your daughter). My doctor suggested making it "his job" and he was trained in two days. Sit your daughter down and tell her you talked to the doctor and the doctor told you it is no longer Mommy's job to have her go poop on the potty. It is now her job. If she poops in her pants have her take the pants off, put the poop in the toilet, wipe her self, and then get dressed again. Also have her wash the soiled clothing in the sink. (Of course I had to help with the wiping and make sure he was clean). The key is to remain calm and keep repeating - this is your job and the doctor said you need to poop in the potty. Act as though you do not care that she had an accident in her pants because it is her job. I had tried several other things (incentives, charts, etc) but this is the only thing that finally worked. My son had done the same thing as your daughter - we went back and forth - we would do it one day and not the next. Or he would do half of the poop in the potty and 5 minutes later do the other half in his pants. Once we gave him the total responsibility he finally decided to go on the potty....BUT he is still waking up every night at 1:00!!

K.

Hi Amy,

I am probably oversimplifing, but you mentioned her having some loose stool. If this is an ongoing issue she may be suffering from some physical ailment which affects her stool consistency. Anything from lactose intolerance, to parasites, to irritable bowel syndrome, to chrohns disease can affect young children. Also is she regular? Does she move her bowels at a predictable time of day? Often right after a meal is the time. You could encourage her to try then and give her plenty of time. She could be having difficulty with somatic awareness and simply cannot identify the symptoms which precede the need to dececate. Finally, since she is four maybe you could just ask her why she doesn't want to use the potty? It could be she is enjoying the attention and control she has in this situation. If you do decide to ask her, I would be very matter of fact, not angry or frustrated or even very sympathetic, just matter of fact, then really listen to her response without much reaction just a "oh, that's interesting tell me more" kind of a response. You might be surprised with what she has to say. Good Luck!

My first question to you is if your daughter has trouble pooping? Does she get constipated? My 5 year old has been diagnosed with cronic-constipation and we have to see 2 specialists for it. It took some time to reach the diagnosis though. First we just thought he didn't have any interest in potty training, then he would actually go on the toilet for a few weeks (even 4 months at one point), but he would always go back to soiling his underwear. It was a case of him holding in the poop because it hurt too much to go. Sometimes loose poop can leak around a large mass and that could be the cause of your daughter's leaky soilings. The pediatrician kept telling us that some kids take longer than others and she would not start worrying that there was a problem until he was 5 years old and if he was still soiling his underwear. The summer before he was going to Kindergarten, we decided to push the doctor for help because we did not want this to keep happening when he went to Kindergarten, because we imagined that it would start causing him emotional problems if he was repeatedly embarrassed at school. The pediatrician put him on a laxative that he still takes every day to make sure that he can go. And we started seeing a gastroenternologist (I am certain that I have that name wrong), and he also see a child psychologist. The psychologist is helping him to overcome his fear of the pain and to try to acknowledge different tactics to encourage him to go when he needs to. We have seen some progress, but it has been a slow road.

Of course this may not even be the case with your daughter, but it might be worth a mention to the doctor to see what they have to say. We were also taught that when you are constipated too much, you can lose your sense of feeling that you have to go. So some of the accidents that my son was having, may simply have been because he couldn't feel it at all.

Like I mentioned, we have seen some progress, but not 100% yet, so I am actually really interested in seeing what other moms tell you and how you make out. I just may take a little advice that comes your way too. He will be turning 6 this May and I would really love to be able to move on from this.

I hope any of this helps!

A.

Separation anxiety???

My daughter started showing interest in the potty at 18 months and was fully trained before she was two.. My son on the other hand didn't show any interest until he was 2 1/2, and for a couple/three months he wouldn't poop on the potty. My opinion now, and then, was separation anxiety. My son is very independent, outgoing and thriving, but something about having the poop fall into a toilet versus being next to his bum was scary.

Where your daughter has issues sleeping alone, she may have some degree of separation anxiety. The most important thing for this is for the parents to be as calm as possible -- not just appear calm, but BE calm. Have talks with your daughter about how it is normal to not have poopies on her body, perhaps books/videos about going potty will help, too.

I would also recommend using pull-ups or diapers until she is ready to get rid of them. Talk to her about when you go poopies, perhaps tell her when you have to go -- make it a normal part of everyday life. The less resistance/pressure she has from her parents will hopefully make it easier for her to relax and let go.

Good luck!

Thank god it's not just us!!! My 4.5 yr old girl is having the same problem, she is getting better and the accidents were both pee and poop. She is so smart and very stubborn, I have come to figure out that I pushed to hard in making her try to go. We tried everything too. The one thing that made it worst was getting mad, which is hard to do when you feel like she might be doing it on purpose. I have tried to make her responsible, she has to change herself and clean up the mess. She also has to earn money to buy new undies. My doctor said she is trying to control something in her life, and this she has absolute control with. Hang in there and try to see if maybe you can give her freedoms about other things. It's hard not to get upset, but the more you react the harder it gets. GOOD LUCK

Hi Amy, N. here from Maine. I'm an 'elder' having raised three girls, two of which were twins...18 months apart. I'm also a retired pediatric OT and currently work in energybodywork...cranio`sacral. I want you to know I feel your frustration from here, and if I can, so does your little girl....she is the 'star' on center stage every time she has a bowel movement. Why on earth would she ever want to 'let go ' of that?! :) I know this sound really simple, but with the potty training, try 'acceptance' and decide this moment you will no longer have 'expectations' from her whatsoever when it comes to using the toilet. Grin and bear it in silence, with as little reaction as possible. Continue to give positive reinforcement when sucessful on the potty, but not over the top 'You are the Sunshine of my Life' kind of attention...just 'great job, honey. Lets go..I have errands to do.

As far as waking up at all hours....can't help you there. I had twins that woke up intermittently throughout the night for awhile...alternately. I remember thinking 'I will never bring them to my bed, and I didn't. I loved them, nurtured them, rubbed there back, let them cry a bit and went back to sleep know they were safe...it may be too late for you by Amy, unless you do the 'nanny' thing of weeding yourself away by staying in the room while she cries, with your back to her and remaining completely quiet. You could go to her website...she must have one. Okay! gotta run. Nz

if she is leaking loose stool, she is probably constipated, and there is a hard impacted stool in there, which the liquid is just leaking around. this would also explain the pain, and why she screams when you clean her. i would definitely talk to your pediatrician.
does she usually have issues w/ hard stools or constipation? this can contribute to issues of pooping in the toilet, if it hurts to poop. once you work out if she is impacted, and that resolves you maybe could try miralax (would need a prescription) powder to keep her regular.
good luck!

HI Amy
My daughter is also 4 I have no advice because she is the exact same. I have tried reward charts, and soooo many bribes. I will have to check back and see what advice people give to you because I am in the same boat. Sorry I could not help
K.

Have you considered constipation as the source. My son who is only 3 went through very similar things witht the loose stool then would finally have a movement? Has she been contipated in the past? It took us many months to get it resolved and it will rear it's ugly head once in a while. Any blood in her stool? If it is constipation, my doc prescribed Milk of Magnesia. And it worked great. She told us we may see it off and on until the age of 5. Even now we are trying to potty train him and he will stand behind the door of our bedroom and poop because he is scared. Good luck! If all else fails, call her doc again.