Almost 5 Year Old Acts Differently at Home than He Does at Daycare

Hello! My name is C.. I am 31 yrs. old and am pregnant with my first child. I don't yet have any kids of my own, but I work as a teacher's assistant in a program for EBD kids. (emotional behavioral disorder). I'm not sure if I will be of any help or not, but this request really caught my attention. The part that got me the most is that he "laughs when disciplined". To me, this says that he has no fear of the staff at the daycare which, I think, is a pretty powerful thing. One of my first thoughts was maybe he is being bullied by an older child or peer at daycare that really affects him... or maybe that he is feeling like he is "at the same level" with one (or all) of the staff. By that I mean that maybe one of the staff's way of discipline is somewhat immature or hurtful to your son. One thing I've learned in my years working with kids and troubled kids is that they usually "act out" for emotional reasons because they don't yet know how to put their feelings into words. I don't know if this will help at all. It also broke my heart to hear that he breaks down and cries when he talks to you. It sounds almost like he feels guilty, because he doesn't want to do it, but he doesn't know how to stop. Good luck... he sounds like a normal sweet boy that maybe can't tell you what exactly is bothering him.

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I have a 5 year old and also work as a school social worker. It's difficult to know what is going on with your son without being able to watch the interactions between him, the other kids and the teachers. I would suggest trying to do an observation without him being able to see you. I know that is difficult but may be helpful in figuring out what is triggering the negative behavior. Putting him in time out when he gets home is not effective for this age child. They need a consequence or reward right when the behavior occurs and this response is also disruptive to your family time at home. The day care needs to be able to handle his behaviors at school including providing consequences there if needed. My guess is that they are going to be talking about whether or not they can handle your son at the daycare any more which is why they want another meeting with the director. I would definitely be looking around at other options as well. If you can't go observe, send someone you trust who can take a look at what is happening. And, in some places, there are behavior specialists associated with the local school district who could also possible go over and observe and consult with them.

It's not surprising to have behaviors be so different at home as compared to school. The environments are completely different. It all depends on what is going on in the interactions.

It's also a concern to me that the daycare is so focused on punishment. That is a red flag that it may not be the best situation for your son.

Good luck to you.

B. M. in Minneapolis.

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Hi K.,
The fact that the school is calling you to deal behavior problems tells me your son doesn't belong there. It's really unprofessional and unnecessary to involve parents in the daily school routine plus it defeats the whole point of separating the school environment from home. I have a 4 1/2 year old son who went through a similar situation a few years ago. We sent him to a highly recommended montassori (we tried 2 locations to see if it would help) and we got calls or nasty notes from his teachers almost every day. It was awful and our son started to hate going and his behavior just got worse. Kids know when teachers or adults don't like them and it makes them act up even more. No one wants to be "the bad kid". He actually stopped playing with the other children and started showing some anti-social behavior. We finally had a sit down with the director and she just asked us to leave - we had been looking for other programs already but this forced us to make a change fast. I took a week off of work and interviewed every daycare I could find.

We found one in Columbia Heights (David's Christian Learning Center) and it was the best move we ever made! Our son was hyper and still is, but he's not mean or bad in any way. They just found ways to work with him and get through to him one on one and they NEVER once called us due to behavior. He loves it there and loves everyone there. They treated him like a very special and important person - that made all the difference. He's transitioning into a pre-kindergarten program now and has almost no problems. He's one of the friendliest most polite and outgoing kids you could ever hope to meet. They taught him that he had a lot to offer and if he could control his emotions and behavior he would be liked by adults and kids too.

I don't mean to be down on your daycare - but find a place that deals with kids through a position of love, caring and support rather than just empty rules and disipline and you may see amazing results. Good luck to you and your son.

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If daycare is having that much difficulty handeling him, you need to find a new one. Daycare teachers are supposed to have enough training that they can act before the behaviors get out of control.

Good luck.

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Hi,
It sounds like your son has developed some not-so-positive patterns of behavior while at daycare. Since he is almost 5 and will be starting school soon, now is a really good time to take action. I teach kindergarten and have had some challenging children in my class every year. On occasion, a parent will suggest that I call him/her if the child is having trouble. I found that if I called the parent and did nothing myself, I am giving away any authority I have to the child's parent and expecting them to 'fix' the problem which compounds my problem and makes life difficult for the parent. I now continue to call parents to notify them of a problem, but do not use calling them as my consequence. Kids need consequences that are immediate, appropriate, and meaningful. I think his teachers need to identify the common issues they are having with him and an appropriate consequence for them - you should know what these are and they should explain them to your son and you can also talk to him about them. He is getting some sort of pay-off from the misbehavior and that needs to stop so he can learn that he can control his behavior. I am sure you would like to be able to get through a day at work without a phone call and to be able to pick up a happy kid who feels good about himself and his behavior. Good luck!!

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A couple of things to think about, at home your environment is probably much calmer, no competition and lots of constructive and supportive attention from you, which he seems to respond to well. The environment in child care is different, with lots going on, more children and lots of choices to make. He is at that age where he is discovering how his skills and knowledge playout socially. Sometimes kids need more proactive support in getting all this to fit right. Obviously he is in an emotional tug of war with himself. Being the tough guy and using his power in a forceful way to crying.
Aother thought is are teachers doing observations and recording? They need to obvserve him and the situations that cause him to get into something that he feels he needs to overly control by using agressive behavior. Are there too many children in his space, are his words not working for him? Is he using bullying behavior because he can? Does he need to be able to control more of his little world and does he know how to do it in a positive manner.
Timeouts are one way to deal with situation however, it only removes him from the situation it does not make him responsivibe for fixing it or learning how to work through his own emotions while still in the situation. If he is hurting others including the teachers by hitting, this is unacceptable. The teachers need to and will respond immediately so that he can not hurt others.
It sounds like the teachers are very frustrated with your son and at the point that they do not want to work with him. So you have to ask, if moving him to a a smaller environment is better and will it give him the learning opportunties he needs, with a fresh start. Will he be going to kindergarten next year and will to many transitions be a negative thing or a move to new center or family child care home be just the perfect fit. Can you and staff change the current enviroment and his behavior enough so that he does not have the negetive reputation. Overall does your son want to go somewhere else or does he feel he has friends where he is at. Learning how to make friends and keep friends is very hard for 5-7 years old children. Lastly remember you are his best advocate a responvie mom! It is great to hear you wanting to work in a partnership with the staff to help your son. I am a former center teacher and center director with a highly spirited son of my own.

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First of all I am sorry you are going through this. I know how hard it is as I have been in your same position. I spent huge amounts of time meeting with my son's daycare provider and trying to help her with strategies. We eventually pulled him out and I started staying home with him (fortunately that was an option for us). Here is what I learned from that experience: my son was acting out because he was overwhelmed by the daycare setting...too much action, too much noise, too much invasion of his space, too much competition, too much structured time instead of running around OUTSIDE time. We have now learned that my son has some sensory processing difficulties and a group setting like that it was pure torture!

TIME OUTS are not the answer and are only going to make the situation worse for your son. Also do not tie his behavior at daycare to extra time with you. Take him out sledding (yes, in the dark) or to play in the snow or to an indoor play area (although if he has sensory issues indoors might not be the best) or even just play a game with you at home (with your complete attention) rather than expecting him to go somewhere quiet like a library.

But ultimately I think you will find that you need to change his daycare situation. Ideally by limiting the number of hours he is there (you and dh do some creative switching of work schedules or responsibilities) or change him to a different daycare setting (an in home setting with only a few kids or a Montessori classroom).

Keep in mind that the behavior is your son's cry for help in a situation that he finds stressful and unbearable. He doesn't want to act out but he doesn't know how to deal with the situation any other way.

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I would meet with the director. Find out exactly how they're dealing with his behavior at school, find out if they're consistent (which is a huge challenge for us all, right?), find out what their policies are on discipline/when to call parents/etc. Get your hands on their parent handbook, if they have one. They cannot expect you to parent over the phone.

Honestly, your son is pretty smart. He's figured out what works for him at school - good, bad or otherwise. Maybe he's acting out at school to get the attention of his teachers, to get attention from kids he thinks are "cool." Who knows. BUT, there is a reason he does it, and he continues to do because there's a payoff - maybe the payoff is knowing that if he's naughty enough he gets to talk to you.

We have a 4 year old & went through something similar, but not quite so extreme. Taking things away from him just didn't work for us. So we tried more positive reinforcement - we started a "decisions chart" that charted certain behaviors we wanted to see more of (sleeping in his bed all night, using good manners, going up for bath/bed right away, eating a good dinner, etc.) as well as behaviors that we considered negative (using hateful voice, hitting/kicking/being violent, talking back, etc.). By having a visual for him to "see" his behavior, it forced him to take responsibility for his actions. We translated school issues into chart topics too - what did he do at school: talk back, hit? We tallied up the "points" at the end of the day & when he reached certain point levels he got rewards - a new toy, a special dinner, to go out to a movie. It sounds way more complicated than it was, but it really worked. Chase would be devastated when he got a frowny face for a bad decision & celebrated stickers for good decisions. We're still using it with modified decisions. If you want more info, let me know.

Anyway - I can really understand your frustration. My husband & I both work full time & have to deal with daycare & differences in discipline style. I feel really fortunate to have him in the center he's in, but it hasn't always been easy.

Good luck to you!
J.
Mom to Chase (4) & "Sunny" due 6.2.8

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I know you have already received a lot of responses but I wanted to say that sometimes a teachers behavior is the cause. In Kindergarten my sons real teacher was on Maternity leave and the substitute was very negative and all of a sudden I had a badly behaved little boy who never behaved that badly at home. Then his real teacher came back from maternity leave and on his teacher conference day, I was prepared to hear about his behavior and she said it was fine. We talked about it and she said she believes in postive discipline not negative discipline ie. punishements, bad behavior cards etc. It was a whole new outlook and the making of a child who became a very positive and helpful student! It is amazing!! Always stay in tune with your kids like you have been. They know best.

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I'm a Headstart teacher and have been teaching for 10 years. It sounds to me like he is angry for having to go to daycare, especially after being home with you such as a day off or weekend and then having to go back. It also sounds like his teachers aren't demanding the respect that they need, perhaps on the young side? A home daycare might be the answer you are looking for because they would be available for more one on one attention with him. However, in pulling him out make sure he's not being rewarded for his behaviors by getting what he wants. Also, good job in following through with his behaviors when you get home.

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I actually just saw your posting today when I saw the reponse to what has happened. It sounds identical to the issues I was having with my 4 1/2 year old son. We debated over and over what to do. He was at a very nice reputable Christion Academy but was having major behavorial issues that were not happening at home. After several months of both my husband and myself being called at work and my husband having to go to the school several times a week not to mention us taking him to a psychologist to make sure nothing else was going on we finally decided to take him to a different daycare setting all together. It was the best decision we have made. He is happy and the behaviors have completely gone away (not that it is was ever a problem at home)And since we have been out of that situation I have realized that the whole this was because they couldn't mold him into "a perfect little boy" I am glad everything has worked out for you and it's nice to know sometimes that you aren't the only one with child issues.

When this started happening was anything going on at home (a move, a new sibling, etc.), or was there a change at daycare (a new teacher, new daycare, etc.)? How does your son explain what is going on? I know you said you do family time, but does he get special mommy and daddy time without his brother?
What do they do to correct his behavior? Discipline works best when it is immediately following the incident (so I don't know that a time out at home hours later will do anything.) If they aren't consistent with this punishments then he will likely continue. It might work if he knows what consequences he will face if he does x,y, or z. Maybe sit down with him and make a list of the naughty things he does at daycare that cause problems throughout the day and have him help you come up with a reasonable punishment for it. Then you can give the list to the teachers so they have something to go on. When my 4 year old does something he isn't supposed to I make him pick from 2 punishments (both of which I know he won't like, like a time out by himself or no toys for x minutes). Doing it this way kind of puts it back on him. He made the choice to be naughty and now he has to choose his punishment. It puts ownership back on him for his behavior.
It might be time to consult a psychologist (not because there is anything wrong with your son but because they may have some suggestions for what might work).
Good Luck!

Hi, I just joined this mamasource site and your question was the first one I read. I have a background in Early Childhood Ed. and have workd with children from age 0-5 for about 12 years, also I have a 5 1/2 yr. old and a 3 1/2 yr. old of my own. My suggestions would be as follows; a behavior chart at home and/or at daycare. If he earns so many stickers on his chart he gets something special at the end of the week, such as a donut at the bakery, a quarter for his piggy bank, a toy from the dollar store, etc. On the chart you would make different columns for differnt things he needs to do and he would be able to earn up to five or so stickers a day. Examples of the differnt collums, would be Using his words with his teachers and friends, saying please and thank you, sharing with his friends, etc. Also if the teachers could be overly excited and possitve when he does something good (they should be doing this already) instead of just always telling him he has done something wrong. For example, say he normally tries to hit kids with balls instead of play catch with them and then his teachers see him playing catch, then he teachers should comment to him at that time that he is doing an excellent job playing catch and that he has made a great choice. I could go on and on, so I will stop now, but good luck and I hope that I was helpful. C. S.

Hi, K. I have a son that is 10yrs. old I had the same problems and it started when he was about 4yrs. old. The differeance is he is considered legally blind. So he had to take special classes for the one on one help. Reading all this made me think about all I went through, phone calls every single day. If I didn't know any better I would have thought you was talking about the same child. My son did not ease up until he was about 8yrs. old I would talk to him and ask questions but he just would not open up at all. I took him to see a Dr. to see if he would open up to him he did a little bit all he would say is they always picking on me. We asked who he said some kids and teachers. The Dr. said its nothing wrong with this child at all he don't have a problem or a behavior problem. Because if he did he would not only act up in school he will do it at home, church, the store or where ever we go. He told me when a child have a problem they can't help themseleves they will act out where ever and whenever because that can't control it. My son never was out of control at home so I was like you could not understand what was going on. The Dr. said you brought him to see me now you need to go to the school and find out what's really going on. Because of his handicap they wasn't taking out the time he needed so he will get upset. The Dr. say after you go to that schhol and get the facts, have a meeting with your son and the teachers then he will see that you are on his side he isn't in this alone. The Dr. said because we trust these teachers to take care of our children when they call and say they did something we believe them and don't get the whole story. I was raised if an adult said you did something there is no story you did it and that's that. But today you will be surprised. So I did everything the told me to do. When they would call me and say whatever I would stop doing what ever it is and I will go to the school and the first thing I would hear is Oh!! you didn't have to come we just wanted to let you know what happened. I listen to them then I turn to my son and listen to him. I would take him home and talk to him again to see if the story stay the same. Some of those teachers would say some awful things to him. and he told me mommy that's why I got so mad because they would lie on me and I would get in trouble for nothing. Some of the things the teachers was telling the truth but they would add on to make me upset with him. everything got so much better after I including him in the meetings and I would let him tell me his side as well them I would take action after I get all my information. Nobody know our children like we do but God. And God revealed to me alot of people took he can't see so he crazy to. But the devil is a liar!!!! He is very smart they can't tell him anything or do anything and I don't know about it. We talk now and he fill me in everyday about how his day went. Still have some bad days but nothing compared to before. He told me he felt like Why say anything when I am going to get in trouble anyway. But I thank God that we are getting passed him getting upset because he can't see. and to much pressure cause a melt down. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

Felicia,
Pride Mother Of Three

First of all I want to commend you for asking for help. Most people are so in denial that there child has a problem.
We have 2 little boys that we are adopting that are 4 and almost 2. The older one started preschool this year and has had behaviors that make me ask if this is my kid or if they've got him mixed up with someone else's kid :o) He's pretty well behaved here but does the strangest things at school. I do know that he has ADHD though and I think that may have quite a bit to do with it. Sometimes kids like this get or feel lost amongst all of the other kids and don't get the same amount of one on one that they get at home. They have to learn to wait turns and learn how to share and deal with other kids that might not be nice to them.
I have actually been looking a lot into diet and supplements for kids these days. 4 of my soon to be 5 kids are special needs with ADHD, FAE, Angleman Syndrome to name some things. I think you would be surprised at how much artificial color, flavors and preservatives can affect the way kids behave. One thing I have tried and have suggested to other parents to try and they have also had success was giving a calcium/magnesuim/D supplement before bed each night. It helps them sleep and magnesium is a very calming supplement that many kids don't get enough of. There is a liquid form by Tropical Oasis that you can get at Coborns and it even tastes good. It's in the natural foods section.
If you check out websites that deal with Autism - not to say that your son has it - there is lots of info about supplements and dietary changes and how they help kids deal with behaviors.
Please email me if you have any questions about this, my post is already getting quite long :o)
I hope this helps,
J.

Hi K.. Sorry about the situation- how frustrating. Do you think he could be bored at daycare? Is he being picked on by another child or feeling left out? I am a licensed family childcare provider & these are things I would look at if a child started acting out. Something is obviously happening- it is just a matter of figuring out what it is. Maybe he is feeling overwhelmed or needs some quiet time during the day & isn't getting it. I would definitely talk to the Director- they have ideas and (usually!) solutions that can be discussed.

Best of luck with the situation. Good luck with your new adventure in scrapbooking! (as noted on your bio)
D.

Hi K.,
I have an in home daycare that just the opposite is true, the kids are absolutely great for me and terrible for their Moms. Usually they are all completely potty trained here with me and will not go at home for Mom. The two sisters that i have fight horribly at home and not one bit of trouble here during the day. I have had almost allofmy children since they weretiny infants until they go to kindergarten. I teach the "Hooked On Phonics" program and they love it. I am very structured and they have a routine that they learnfrom the very beginning.
From my point of view I think that your little guy is trying to tell you that something is wrong and Iam glad that you are trying a new daycare. It may just be as simple as a personality conflict.
I had one little boy that just really did not like me and did not bond...he went into a new daycare and did just fine. It was a less structured environment where they did not have special time set aside to do things such as craft time, learningtime and I think he liked it better just tobeable todo what he wanted to do and when.He also was about three when I started watching him.Ihave been doing this for fifteen years and that is the only time i haverun into that. But I would definitely listen to your child...he is trying to tell you something. That is not normal that they are worse at daycare and good at home...it is usually the opposite. Kids are smart but they have a hardtime putting things into words...their actions and behavior tells alot. L.

One thing I have not yet seen suggested is that he could be acting out as a means of self-protection. Talk to him about the other kids and how they may be treating him. It sounds counterintuitive to act out and get in trouble to avoid bullies, but it keeps the teacher's attention and may make it more difficult for another to bully him. He may have adopted the bullying behavior to avoid being targeted. Just food for thought.

I've been reading these responses with great interest, since I'm having the same issues with my son! He is also nearly 5, but also acts up at home sometimes. I still haven't quite pinpointed why he acts up at school, but I believe he is angry that he has to be there. He spends summers home with his dad and sister (he is a teacher) and going back to daycare this fall was not pleasant. I actually think he was acting up on the hopes they would kick him out and he could stay home with dad again - no concept that dad has to work! :)
I think we are going to try a behavior chart of some sort - I have to work out the details with my husband. I don't have any answers for you, but know that you aren't the only one in this situation! Good luck - let us know what works for you, or what you decide to try.

HI K., I've had similar experiences with both my children. Clearly the setting and environment your boy is in is not correct for him. He sounds like he is just at his wits end. In my experience with my two (now 10 and 5) they are both very sensitive -- all around. I opted for a small home day care aand then enrolled my son, then 5, in Waldorf Kindergarten, where it was more serene and we brought his lunch. When I birthed my daughter and it was time to return to work, I placed her in a home day care. We eventually were able to stay at home. I homeschooled my son for 2 years until he said he expressed interest in public school. Works for him now. I am still at home with my daughter, now 5 years old. She tried Kindergarten this year, but she was not able to handle all the kids, the noise, etc.. She is in some small groups (swimming, Daisies, dance) where she is slowly getting used to the 'people' world. Use prayer and The Secret to see your son content, and even ask to please be shown what that is. Trust that it will.

PS: I just remembered that during my son's 'misbehaviors' at the big day care, he was having night terrors too, and we went to Kate Birch, a Homeopath in Minneapolis, MN. She prescribed one remedy that really helped. Soon after we moved him to the Waldorf school! That may be an option too.

Peace. I will hold you and yours in highest outcome. C.

It is an interesting thing you are reporting because most times the kids act up at home and are "angels" at daycare.

What does your gut instinct tell you? If it says to pull them out of daycare, then I would do that.

You might consider doing unannounced drop-bys at his daycare so you could see if there is anything amiss.

K.,
I know I am late on this response but I wanted to share something with you. It really breaks my heart and gets me VERY angry at the way the daycare was handling your son. My son started getting into trouble at school when he was in pre school. We later found out he had ADHD. I'm not saying your son has this. My point in this is the school and I made sure we NEVER told my son he was "being bad". We told him the way he was acting was not ok and he needed to choose better decisions. People always tell me how sweet my son is and what a kind heart he has. He just couldn't sit still and behave like the other kids. The day care I'm sure didn't make your son feel important or like he mattered. Telling him he was bad and moving him to the younger class was sooo wrong on their part. I want to encourage you and let you know I think you made the right decision on moving him to another place. I am so glad you did this. I hope this other place works for you and your son.

I wouldn't remove him from the daycare it self that is probaly not the problem.

He's either having fun "testing" his teachers and you the parents or he needs harsher discipline.

I know my brother was a handful and grounding an timeouts did NOTHING for my brother.

Be creative and find different punishments. I have never found reward charts to help that much. But if he has a good day at daycare make a big huge deal about it so he get's positive attention.Maybe desert after dinner or a trip to the playground or watch a favorite movie. If he has a bad day maybe dinner and straight to bed so he's not getting any attention.

Maybe it's a bad idea when he's so naughty they call you, maybe that's why he is being naughty so he can call him mommy.

I have a friend who's daughter is 5 and goes to a Montessori and has the same behavior she was has ADHD though and is bored and has to be stimulated or busy all day and the Montessori does a pretty good job at it but she has her days and when she's not at school she is horrible. My daughter has a hard time playing with her and alot of people are skeptical of ADHD and I think to many kids are falsly dianosed but this little girl is just bonkers and I know she is anyways her mom takes her to a child pyschologist and it is helping tremendously.