Almost 4 Year Old Girl Holding Her Bm's In

wow...i don't respond to many things here but love reading and seeing what other moms are up to...i am dumb founded that even DR's aren't giving these parents info on whats going on with this little one....aside from playing them she seems to have some issues with needing to get attention,control them and make them do things her way...not a good thing for a 4 yr old as that WILL definately lead to more willful behaviors...seems to me that consistently saying no to the diaper is the only way to go...maybe give her some supplement to help move her bowels regularly...her belly must ache terrible...best of luck

J.,

It is a control issue on the daughter's part, no doubt about it. There is nothing you can do except either tell the parents their child will be welcome when she is able to take care of her needs without all the fuss, or work with her the way she is.

After working in a day care twice, I have read the papers (research) that give evidence of kids needing to potty train at their own pace. Also, going to the bathroom is a private event, no matter how many kids are going to see/absorb from others. She is making her wishes known, and when things are no longer an issue, likely she will stop - how far down the line who knows? You don't know how many caregivers are being pushed and pulled against - and are doing the same to her.

Good luck, and I think you are partially on the right track with telling her it will be easier if she does not wait. You might try explaining the concept of 'wait' unrelated to bathroom issues, though.

M.

I think you are in a tough place because you spend the day with her but she isn't your child - we know that potty training can be really challenging and frustrating process and sounds like her parents are either not committed to completing the process or they are lost in this process. All of you need to be on the same page or she is going to continue getting mixed messages. I would suggest having a formal meeting with BOTH parents at the same time - not just talking to them at drop off or pick up time or over the phone. A face to face meeting can give you all the opportunity to put everthing on the table - the physical pain this is causing the child, the crossed messages, your time, etc. Also, you could use the opportunity to give the parents some info that you can share - a couple pages off the internet, easy read pamphlets or even a book on potty training techniques.

I do not understand how this is hurtful to you. Be more compassionate. It hurts them! My 27 mth. old potty-trained daughter put her arms around me and cried as she was trying to push her bowels out. It looked as if she was trying to give birth, I'm not kidding. I feel so bad. When she has to go, I leave her on the toilet to push it out. After about 15 min. if there is nothing, we try again later. Both of my daughters were potty-trained by 2, and both of them from 2 on had difficulty with their bowels. Even while they were in diapers they had difficulty. I gave my first daughter suppositiories every week to make her go. My second one pushes the suppositories right out,(so I know she is not being stubborn, as well as she passes gas trying to push the poop out). I give her prune juice, applesauce, she eats raisins, like their going out of style, and I give her about three 8oz. cups of juice a day and she urinates fine. She is just constipated bad, not stubborn. I do not know why some children have difficulty and others don't. Please, be more compassionate to the parents who have to go through this with their daughter who is struggling, after all, if it was your kid, be thankful it isn't, you would want the same measure of compassion. It hurts me when she goes through this.

We both are probably going to have some people disagree with both of us but I agree with you 100%. I own a preschool and have potty trained hundreds of kids. I have parents tell me they won't have anything to do with it, they refuse to put underwear on. I tell them bring me underwear and we will do it and we are done in a weeks time. Children learn how to manipulate us if we let them. I have a friend who did the same thing as your parents and their daughter is 8 and still poops in a diaper. She has had every test done imaginable and nothing physically is wrong. I say throw out the diapers and just be very firm with her. Sometimes you have to take the hard line and just push them. I do not understand how this is not dangerous to keep all of those toxins in your body for a week. She must not feel well. It is for her own good that these parents stop allowing this. I once had a little boy at my school who was 4 his mom was a teacher so he was supposed to be trained over the summer. Needless to say he came back in September still not potty trained. He was probably the most stubborn child I had ever met. He would just sit in his chair and pee all over the floor. After many conversations with mom and dad I knew he would pee through all of his clothes so he could go home. With her permission I told her to let me handle it. He would know because his mom would tell him how many change of clothes he had so he would figure out in his little head how many accidents he had to have to go home. So I wouldn't tell him. This was his first experience in school he was home with his grandma and would be carried in everyday at 4 by daddy wrapped in a blanket. I am not kidding you. In my opinion he loved being treated like a baby. So I took over. I would literally sit in the bathroom on the floor for sometimes 15 minutes at a time and tell him we were not leaving until he went. He would hear his classmates having fun and he didn't care. I am also a very stubborn and determined women so we were a good team. After a few days of me going into class and getting him every hour (he would see me and say "What do you want now" he was a pill but so funny!!) I took him and we would sit. He finally gave in and when he went he looked at me as I was getting ready to jump for joy and he pointed his little finger at me and said don't tell anyone!!! Can you imagine. I think he just loved being a baby and loved the attention it brought to him. We had a deal if he kept going on the potty I wouldn't tell anyone and I would stop coming to get him to go on the potty. From that day on he was so sick of me pestering him he continued to go. It was just a power struggle and he knew I was not giving in so he did. These parents need to take a hard line and I am sure she will go. This little boy was the funniest kid I ever came across and at the same time so frustrating. Needless to say his mom and dad were thrilled but they just couldn't do it they always gave into him. Him and I became very good friends after that he still comes back to visit me. Maybe you can share this with her parents and help them to realize that they need to take the extra time she needs and really work with her. I am sure it is her way to get attention. Just thought you would like to know I am with you on this one. Good luck!!!

I agree with a lot of what the other mom's posted and would do all of the following:

1. get the parents on board, if not, do it on your own.
2. have the girl sit on the potty on a regular schedule
and for a longer period of time, like 15 min twice a day always at the same time. She needs this designated time so that her mind and her body can learn to relax on the toilet. Also, with this regular rhythm eventually she will go more often. Over time, try to make this sitting time as relaxing as possible, have her read a book or something else. She needs to relax to let go eventually.
3. give her lots of everything that can help including the prune juice
4. start her on probiotics and enzymes, if the parents agree. They are out there for kids too (i.e. from Kirkman)and with them you are only giving the child something which should be in her gut anyway. If giving her these helps, that is one indication that there might have been something wrong and at the same time you are helping fix it.
5. For starters, put her in a diaper, slid the back open and have her sit on the toilet. That way, she can gradually learn the feeling of pooping on the toilet with the security blanket of feeling the diaper. Give her lots of encouragement once she goes and gradually take it from there, for example after a few times going like this she could maybe only hold the diaper while pooping on the toilet.

Of course you are absolutely right, all this only works if you consistently keep at it. And don't expect wonders, if now she is going less than once a week, I would not expect to see quick results.
Explain to the parents that all of you need to work on this to see if this is just her wanting to feel powerful or if there really might be something in her gut. As long as you haven't gone thru all of this, it will be impossible for a doctor to decide this too.

I don't know if this will work, but it worked for my daughter. She was potty trained, but would poop in her pants. I read that some kids are afraid that this is part of their body and they do NOT want to get rid of it. Therefore, I bought two books:

Everybody Poops and Where's the Poop - I don't remember the authors and can not find the books at this time. Any book store will know where they are.

The books are a little rough for the PARENTS as they are gross. However, we read these books ALL the time and the problem resolved itself with in 2 to 3 weeks - after months of aggrivation. Some members of our family told me they would not read them as they were so gross and I told them that if they loved my daughter, they would get over themselves and read it. Which they did. Good Luck!

First of all, you have to come up with a plan that both you and the parents can follow the same way, Otherwise it will not work. You can slowly graduate from a diaper to the potty by doing the following.
Start out with the diaper on and make her sit on the toilet with the diaper on. Make sure there is a stool for her to rest her feet on. Some kids don't like to sit on the toilet because they are afraid they will fall in or the seat cuts into their legs. If you put the stool under her feet, it will keep her legs from dangling and help her to be more comfortable. Let her hold a favorite toy or book while on the toilet. Stay positive and don't force the issue. Then she can go in the diaper while sitting on the toilet.
After she is comfortable doing this (a few days to a week- no more), cut a hole in the bottom of the diaper and make sure the hole is in the right place so the poop can fall right into the toilet. When she is done, help her wipe with the kandoo soft wipes or something similar and show her the poop in the toilet. Let her flush the toilet and make a big deal- cheer and get excited.
Once she is comfortable with this, try doing it without the diaper. If she resists, cut a bigger hole in the diaper each day until there is less and less left. Give her a date on the calendar when the diapers will be gone and have it circled in RED. Then make a big deal of crossing off the days each day until you get to the day. Cheer her on and have her parents get excited about it too. Let her know what a big accomplishment it is and maybe she will be more amenable.
Also, to help her poop, make sure there is a lot of fiber in her diet- fruits, veggies, whole wheat bread. Feed her prunes, dried apricots, etc. Don't give her apples or bananas and limit meat. Make sure she is drinking lots of water too. After holding it for that many days, it is going to hurt her so yes, she may not be constipated in the traditional sense (not able to go), but after holding it for so long, her intestines have absorbed a lot of the water in the poop and it will be hard.

Give her the diaper. Kids need to have control in this area if you try to take that away from them, this is the result. Give her back some control and the problem will most likely resolve itself.

Hi J.,
Interesting read. How do you tell a 4 year old that she is poisening herself. If she doesn't relief herself within 18-24 hrs. the waste is introduced into her system and poisens the blood. Maybe the parents don't know that either.
I would suggest to add more fiber to her diet, so she will have to go.(more fruits & veggies. or even a mild fiber drink) She might have discomfort with her B.M. that's why she is keeping it in, by straining she might expiriencing hemorrhoidel pain.
You might want to discuss this with the parents.
C.
www.saferforall.net

I agree with Diane. I"m not sure if this will help as well. My son has chronic constipation from his allergy medicine. We give him 2 tsp of benefiber everyday in his chocolate milk in the morning, it helps alot! When it hurts to go, kids hold it in, they can't rationalize that holding it in makes it hurt more, benefiber helps so it's not so hard and it makes it hard to hold it in for too long. At least it helps my son alot and reduces belly pain.

My daughter is also 4, (has been potty trained for well over a year)and had the same problem a few months ago. After a few weeks of her holding in her BM's, and watching her suffer when she finally went, I tried different things but nothing seemed to work. Then I started sitting next to her in the bathroom and we looked through toy catalogs together. It was before Christmas, so she told me all the toys she wanted from Santa. I still sit by her (most of the time) when she needs to go, but now I read her books. I found that making that time for her special helped her to go and not want to hold it in. Maybe this child's family can do something similar and it may work for them. Good luck!!

Prob this girl has pain when she releases...avoiding pain is understandable...soften up the bowel movement...an ounce of aloe juice am and pm will help and it tastes great (flavored of course)...N

I think the constipation issue needs to be resolved before the potty training part. I have a family friend whose mom was a big control freak over potty training issues and she ended up with bowel problems related to constipation/witholding for years (she was 8 or 9 and still taking laxatives for it). Once she is going regularly then it is time to worry about where.

Wow.... I would suggest to treat it as constipation. If it hurts when it does finally come out for whatever reason then a child will not want it to come (because it will hurt). It is a hard concept for them to grasp. I would suggest to the parents to try first offering more fluids - prune juice, apple juice, through in some flax seeds, other high in fiber foods, perhaps some benefiber type of thing and see if that helps, then follow the steps after that is she is still holding. Encourage them to please only have her go poo on the toilet!!!!! I don't know what would help perhaps you could find some good articles or flat out tell them.

hi there:

our 4 year old also holds it in. there are times when he goes easily and then times when he holds it in. we have to use the "medicine", pedia lax liquid suppositories. and when he goes, it is almost 2 feet long. the remedy may include mineral oil, a spoon a day. i am anxious to see what other smart moms have to say.

blessings!

There is an underlying issue there. My now 4-year old went through this. At first I would allow the diaper for BM's and when I tried to stop he would complain of a tummy ache but would refuse to to for long stretches. As it turns out he was confused and EMBARRASED about this body function!!!! I had to assure him that EVERYONE goes, everyone! And to re-inforce him I would name everyone he knows and say Daddy poops, grandma poops, etc. I also would tell him that I had to "poop" everytime I went in the bathroom (even if it was to brush my teeth). You have to realize that once they start holding it in, it hurts them to go-which makes it scarier to go the next time. It is a vicious cycle that is difficult to break. First I changed his diet immediately and made sure to give him NOTHING that would bind and every that will help-without any kind of laxative (do not get into that bad habit). I allowed one last diaper BM to make the first potty one not a traumatic and painful experience. As soon as he had a tummy ache, I would talk to him about how much better he will feel after he went and put him on the potty. I would give him a book to look at and if I couldn't stay with him I would check in every few minutes and encourage him to push, tell him "I know you can do it" and remind he would feel so much better. When he was done I would make a big deal about how proud I was of him, tell him I knew he could do it and ask her if her tummy feels better now that he went. It got easier and easier pretty quickly. My son loves cheese so I allow him that, but I make sure that he gets plenty of water and fresh fruit so that it does not bind him at all. He is now on a regular schedule for him (every 2-3 days) which is much healthier than the 6-7 he was doing before.

Hi Jenifer, I hear your frustration and I agree with you. Her parents must know that you have experience. I can't understand why they continue to do what they do and not take the time to help their daughter overcome this issue. I will pray that someone gets through to them. Grandma Mary

Go online and find some information on "withholding". It's so common that it has a name (of course everything has a name anymore like cell-phone wrist). Anyway, it may be easier for them if they read it rather then listen to you tell them about it. I know you don't have time during the day, but maybe this weekend. I'm sure if you looked for 5 mins you'd find tons of stuff.