Advice for a Friend

When we struggle with disciplining our children it usually stems from our issues not our childs. We often focus on the mechanics of discipline and neglect to honor what is really going on for the parent. I know that many parents fear having their child mad at them. We have been programmed to think that we are fully responsible for our children always being cheerful and happy and when that isn't the case we usually start beating ourselves up with unconscious judgements. These judgements are vicious and we often are not fully aware of them.

I would guess that your friend is really deep down feeling afraid that she isn't good enough as a parent and that interferes with her ability to follow through with her discipline. Sometimes, the best way we can support our friends is to stand in the place of non-judgement and compassion and support them in becoming more aware of their fears and self-judgement. Looking for the underlying feelings of your friend and just offering support may help her more right now than reinforcing what she isn't doing. She seems to be fully aware of what she isn't doing right and the things she "should" be doing and at the same time is stuck. The one thing she may need most right now is someone to actively listen to her and help her uncover her fears and to treat herself with some TLC. We are always our worst critic and especially when it comes to the "I am a bad mother." mantra.

I also support you having her join this website. I think it is an amazing resource. Just caution her to be careful not to take everything said personally. Each person that shares is sharing out of their own filters. It is important to take what is helpful and resonates for her and to leave the rest and watch for where it can trigger unconscious self-judgement. Best wishes, T.

Yeah, you said it. Until she learns to set limits and BE CONSISTENT, nothing is going to change. Kids aren't dumb. They know just how to get what they want. It sounds like your friend has given all power in the relationship to her daughter. If you're worried what she will do if you bring it up, maybe you could suggest a parenting class. Tell her the parenting class will help her know how to best work with her child. And if it's a good parenting class, it will teach her this.

Do you think she would be interested in checking out this website? Maybe if she saw other moms struggling with similar issues and some of the responses to them, or if she wrote in herself and got some good feedback, it might help her to see where she might need to make some changes. It can be tough to share our observations with someone we're close to. I do know for myself, some of the best advice I received on this particular issue was to figure out what that specific child values the most, and that is the privilege to revoke. One of my kids who is extremely social, responded very well to timeouts because she wanted to be in the thick of everything. My son, however, is more introverted and loves time to himself so that was worthless with him. He did, however, LOVE tv. Losing his tv privileges was very effective with him. And as you mentioned, consistently following through is huge! I wish her success!

Pretty much, what you've already said are things she needs to change. She needs to be consistent, be tough, and be the Mom. Here's the problem...most of the time, when people ask for advice, they don't really want it. Even though your friend has called you saying she's at the end of her rope, what she really wants to hear is that she's doing everything right, and that what's happening is beyond anyone's control, or she wants a simple fix, which, when it comes to parenting, is NEVER the answer. It sounds like you've told your friend exactly what she needs to improve on. Either adopt a no-nonsense attitude with her, put it simply and say "Hey, here's what you need to do, you don't do it, your kid isn't going to starve and NEEDS to be properly disciplined...be the boss," or leave it alone, because even if you tell her, she's not going to listen anyway. You may have to decide what you are willing to surround yourself with as a friend. These kinds of situations can put so much pressure on friendships that they can dissolve. Ultimately, you can't make her change, no matter how much you want her to, or how much good advice you give her. I have no wish to be negative, it's just that I have seen and dealt with this kind of situation MANY times.

Good luck to you. I hope things work out for your friend and your friendship!

"Parenting with Love and Logic" By Jim Fey. They also have a series for birth to 6 years old. It helped me to stop yelling, threatening, and losing all my energy trying to get my kids to listen. They have classes, seminars, books, CD's. etc. Search goggle for Love and Logic to get all the details, read articles and listen to podcasts. It teaches how to have empathy for your kids while enforcing real world consequences so that they learn how to make good decisions, respect others and it helps parents gain control in a loving way.
Good luck!!
N.

Unfortunately, she's not going to listen to your advice until she decides to. You can't force help on a mom. It can even be resented (think about how you feel when a well meaning friend, mother-in-law, grandma, etc gives you unsolicited advice.)

It sounds more like she may be looking for someone to commiserate with. Don't let her pull you into her pity party. Listen, be sympathetic, and let her know that you've been there too. Then move on. You can ask her if she'd like some help, then recommend a good parenting book. But she's not going to take any advice until she decides to.

My guess is the divorce was traumatizing (when is it not?) and she is 'making up' for a lack of a father or traditional family by giving into the child's demands. Mom doesn't want to 'hurt' her by disciplining her. But we all know in the long run lack of discipline and parenting hurts more.

All the advice thus far has been perfect: Love & Logic, etc. I'm sure there are some books that deal specifically with discipline written specifically for parents so they can overcome " the fear" The best saying I've heard is: a life lived in fear is a life half lived. Maybe she can begin to take that to heart....GL! Thanks for doing all you do :-)

So as not to offend her or appear like you are second-guessing her parenting skills, I suggest you send her a gift of a fun book (anything by Shannon Hale is a great read) and a copy of the book "How to Talk So Kids will Listen and LIsten so Kids will Talk." That book saved my sanity and probably my kids' lives. . . it makes it sooo much easier to get action instead of backtalk, and we really have a nicer atmosphere in our home because of what I learned from that book. It's not any tricky system or mental gymnastics, just a few ideas about how to communicate what you need effectively without creating a defensive or resistant reaction. You could find it cheap online at Powells.com or Amazon.
Best wishes!

I agree with Patti on her suggestion to find what the child values the most and then make losing that her punishment.

I also agree with you that your friend needs to stick to her guns when it comes to punishment. I have actually walked out of stores and left a basket full of food because my DD was having a tantrum over something she wanted and I said "No." I've also put her in time-out in the middle of the produce section while I picked out fruit.

Having said that, the biggest thing that I started doing differently was telling her what I expected of her. I had just read in a book that a lot of parents tell their kids what not to do, but never tell them what to do or HOW to do it. So I sat my DD down and told her what a tantrum was. I told her that I would not tolerate a tantrum and that if she has one, she will lose a privilege. Whether that was toys, play-dates, tv, or a time-out depends on the situation and what she wants the most right then.

Then, to make sure she was paying attention, I ask her what will happen if she has a tantrum. If she rambles on, I repeat myself, and then ask her again. I keep doing it until she answers correctly.

I've used this method for different things ranging from sassing to outright disobedience. If a time-out is needed then I make her wait until she is no longer screaming and crying before I go get her. I WILL NOT let her out for anything other than calm behaviour. Then I sit down and talk with her and I'll tell her what she did wrong and why she lost her privilege. Then I'll tell her what she can do next time instead of the tantrum or misbehaviour.

I've also taken to ignoring things that I don't want to reinforce, things that she does for attention, like when she deliberately removes an article of clothing after I've asked her to get dressed. Even though he's only 5 months old, I will turn to my baby boy and praise him profusely for staying dressed and listening to mommy. I don't belittle, chide or scold my DD for her disobedience, but I don't pay attention to her either. Naturally, she wants attention too so she will usually put the piece of clothing back on and shout, "Look at me mommy!!" That's when I praise her too for getting dressed and being a big girl.

Does any of this make sense? (In my head it sounds so much different than when I see it typed.)

Go with your friend to the nearest public library and check out the book by Dr Dobson, "The Strong Willed Child" and make sure she reads it! Her daughter is running the household and she needs to learn to be a parent right now or she should plan on missing lots of work when her daughter starts school and she has to face the consequences of wimpy parenting : )

This situation is concerning, I don't have kids yet, but I know about this situation; because I have never had respect for my mom. She is a good person, but she has no power. She lets everyone including me and my sister take advantage of her- now that I've realized how unhealthy this situation is, I no longer take advantage of her- but she is so identified with being taken advantage of and being a victim that it's still in our relationship in the form of accusations; that are very hurtful.

Luckly the state turned custody of my sister and me over to our dad when we were 4 & 6 before she did permanent damage to us. This was one of the most painful experiences of my life; but getting into a household with structure is what allowed us to grow into healthy adults, pursuing our educations and contributing to our own personal development and that of society.

Kids are always pushing the limits, and the more your friend lets her daughter have whatever she wants, the less safe the girl will feel- If mom's not in control then either she can do whatever she wants (this will be UGLY in adolescence) or she (@ 4 yrs. of age) will have to become the parent in that situation. Both of these senarios are very unhealthy for the girl. By the way, she is re-enforcing bad behavior by giving-in, teaching her that the way to get what she wants is to be a brat.

Please be sincere with your friend; don't accuse her of being a bad mom, but ask her questions about how she treats her daughter in different situations and wonder how she expects her daughter to respond. This is common sense, but people feed into their stories about not wanting to hurt their kids to the point that they end-up hurting their kids.

Please have courage and encourage your friend to raise a child who can rely on mom.