9 YO Daughter Out of Control

Have you looked into food allergies or intolerances? I have similar reactions to chemicals - soy, equal, and any food with chemicals added - like creamers or even orange juice that is not organic.
I know it sounds strange but taking a look at the things she consumes just might be what will help... Wishing you good luck.

Hi D.,

I'm no psychologist but it sounds like something deeper is going on here besides behavioral problems. Have you discussed this with her pediatrician?

For a psychologist, pediatrician and teacher to say this is normal behavior worries me! My sister went through the same thing with her daughter - turns out she had been molested by a family "friend" - thus the tendency to behave worse towards males. You need to investigate thoroughly - I don't want to scare you but something is not right with your daughter and you need to find out sooner rather than later.
My other thought is have you had her thyroid tested? And have you had her tested to see if perhaps she is getting her menses a bit early - you can have her estrogen level tested as well. A friend of mine growing up started having hormone fluctuations when she was only 8 and it took her mom forever to figure out the cause of her erratic behavior, but when they did and got her on medication to regulate it she was MUCH better. The emotional capacity of an 8 or 9 year old is not enough to handle what the body puts on it sometimes and so the hormone fluctuation is too much for their little bodies and brains. Abnormalities in the thyroid and the pituitary gland can cause erratic behavior as well, but might present themselves physically too - for instance weight gain or loss that is unexplained, headaches, fatigue, nervousness, etc.
Again I want to stress to you that no matter what it is, it needs to be figured out fast before any further damage is done to your daughter and your family. Please urge your husband not to give up on her - she may need him more than ever now as a positive male role model if she has been violated.
I feel for you and wish you the best of luck . . .if you want to talk privately you can feel free to send me a message.

Hi D.:
No one thinks this is out of the ordinary? - A beautiful child displaying constant anger to everyone around her and isolating herself from everyone.

Get a new pediatrician. If you need one, ask online here.

Spend some one on one time with your daughter every day - even if it is hard at first.
Talk to her dad and siblings and let them know not to give up on her. Like if she says "I hate you", it is hard but they could say, "I love you anyway".
Encourage her to do better. When she does, give her a giant hug.
I recommend no physical discipline - just time outs and removal of privileges but this is where the advice of a GOOD pediatrician comes in. The doctor can make recommendations to you on this situation.

If you don't like the answers from the pediatrician you are seeing, go to another.

Do you go to church? Is it something you would consider doing as a family or perhaps just you and your daughter?

Is she being bullied at school? Would she tell you?
If she is being 'exploited' by someone she knows, most children don't talk right away. That is when good communication comes into play because when she is ready, you will be there.

This is the hardest for me to say. If my hubby said to me that he "ever" gives up on any of his children, I will have a serious heart to heart with him. I hope your daughter has not picked up on your hub's feelings/behavior toward her.

Your hub needs to understand that it is the "behavior" and not his good little girl and he is the adult and needs to be able to separate the two. Maybe he could spend a little time w/ her daily too like take her out for ice cream or a walk at a pretty park with the spring flowers.

Little girls are happy and playful. Her behavior is not normal and it is your job as her mom to get to the bottom of it no matter what it takes. Don't give up and remember that you need support too, starting with your hubby to back you up 100% on this. This is when you two pull together - for your sake and hers. Stand united and persevere.

I would suggest you get her a special diary with a lock. They ususally come with two, so you can keep one. Although I don't encourage snooping, it sounds like she may have some serious problems that she may unveil in her diary....which would help you get to the bottom of what's going on.

Has she been allowed to go on sleepovers, or been around any adults unsurpervised - without you (mom)? It almost sounds like she had an "incident" of some sort with an a male. Maybe it was something at school with a boy? No one likes to think the worst, but I would visit all potential scenarios since it is odd that she withdrew completely from the males in her family.
I HOPE she will reveal more in a diary for you.....

P.S. A really great kids awareness/self-defense program is RadKids http://radkids.org/ which repeatedly reinforces self confidence, self-safety, and reassurance about telling a trusted adult if something were to happen to them. Plus, kids get FREE refresher courses through age 13 after their first course compeletion!! My 8 yo loved it :)

Best,
C.

Hi D. -

Wow - what a difficult situation! My first question is when did this all begin, and what was happening in your daughter's life when it began. Sounds to me like something really upsetting happened that either was not talked about, or has not been resolved. These things tend to go underground, and affect virtually every facet of life. It seems to me like you are focusing on her behavior (totally understandable), rather than on the reasons for her behavior. She is doing all this stuff for a reason. I've found Patty Wiplfer's short pamphlets really enlightening. She talks about "How Children's Emotions Work", and she has several on Tantrums, Anger and Fear. She addresses why kids act like they do, and how to respond to the kid, not solely to the behavior. However, she also advocates holding strong boundaries with kids, and maintaining a strong and loving connection while doing so.

I really like the advice from the mom who said to spend half the day (or more) with her, and wait for her to open up. Great idea, in my opinion. However, the Love and Logic approach is really more about controlling behavior rather than finding out what's going on with your daughter. I know what your daughter is doing is driving everyone up the wall, and I do feel limits need to be placed. But the extreme behavior your daughter is exhibiting points to a deeper issue that needs to be found and resolved. Personally, I feel that is the higher priority right now. As she is able to process whatever has upset her so, her behavior will improve.

I have a daughter who went through an incredibly rough time when her dad and I divorced, and the Patty Wipfler material was so helpful when I was trying to sort out my daughter's really wild behaviors. This approach does take time - it's no quick fix - but I believe it is a "real" fix. My daughter is doing much better now, and going through all we did has deepened and strengthened our connection.

Wishing you all good things as you sort out this tough stuff,

V.

I wouldn't wait a second to get on the phone and call a child psycologist. Don't give up, you are her best (and it sounds like now, her only) advocate. Maybe they could arrange a phone consult for less or if you have health insurance they may have a list of PhD counselors with a co-pay. I read "Siblings without rivalry" and just loved it, but my kids are much smaller.

I think it's shocking and discouraging that her pediatrician,teacher, and school psych think there's nothing wrong with it. I taught for 16 years and I would be very concerned. Is it possible that someone has been invading her privacy--molesting her? The other thought: a nurse and doctor wife and husband were just on national news about 2 weeks ago discussing how their 9 year old daughter changed dramatically after the immunizations she had at age 9 or so. Apparently, the girl had some sort of mitochondrial disorder that made her predispositioned to this. A friend just recently had her daughter diagnosed with TURET's syndrom which is not just twitching as many of us think. It involves outbursts of profanity, etc., etc. NO doubt in my mind that you need to get a new doctor, new teacher (trust me, it's like any other profession...there are a few really good ones) and a new school pych (by the way, they deal mostly with academic testing whereas a social wkr at the school deals more with behaviorial stuff) Please pursue it for the sake of your family --- something is definitely not right! I'm so sorry to be so blunt, but there is something that needs to be addressed. You can have your daughter back the way she once was, but clearly, she needs some special support right now.

D.,
I commend you on being a SAHM. It's a blessing to be able to do that in today's economy. It is a sacrifice that pays dividends in the long run.

Regarding your 9 year old daughter: your concerns are indeed valid and should be addressed sooner than later. I suggest finding a skilled child psychologist to work with your daughter. Given everything you have described, I strongly believe that there is a problem that others are overlooking. Contrary to what others have said, I do not consider this typical behavior for a 9 YO.

Your husband needs to be on board with this. He needs to set his hurt feelings aside and realize that this is not about him, that his little girl has a problem and is crying out for help through her actions. This is not the time to give up on her, even though frustration is evident.

Your concern for the safety of your son is also valid. Until she gets the help she needs, you need to safeguard him.

Insist that your pediatrician refers you to a child psychologist, or check with your insurance company for one on your plan. Please do not delay this is indeed critical.

I will keep your family in my prayers.

Hi D.,
I have a 10 YO daughter that has been going through some of the same things you described. I have talk to my mom and she said I acted this way when I was 11/12. I think that girls go through some "changes" earlier and earlier. I have found she is at an age that she needs me less and less and that's tough. I try to stay focused on the good things she does, let her know that I love her very much and if she EVER, EVER wants to talk I will always be there for her. She spent a lot of time alone in her room thinking about her behavior and writing down apologies to those she hurt. Putting her thoughts on paper has helped open our communication. I have taken ALL her priviledges away (gameboy, TV, computer, etc)and for everyday she has no "melt downs" she gets one hour of ONE priviledge (I made it PERFECTLY clear that I decide if she has a "melt down"...saves an argument). For us this has made HER realize she needs to exercise more self control. I have had many talks with her teacher and her biggest concern is the social withdrawl. It has started getting better because her and I do things together, just us (close the bedroom door and just do whatever). She had a slumber party for her 10th bday last month with 4 girls and that helped her A LOT! She formed a bond with them on her "turf". We have had several talks about her grades because she has always been an excellent student until this year. Now that she knows I talk to her teacher on a daily basis she knows she can not misbehave at school either. And we have begun an open communication about her day...everyday. I know it's hard and your heart just breaks for her, but be patient and steadfast and she will come around. I hope this helps you a little bit. You are not alone nor is your daughter.

sounds like she might start having signs of her menstrual cycle, The hormones start to kick in aroung 9. Does she have breast buds yet? If so she is going through a hormonal change. My daughter was acting the same way. My daughter had severe mood swings, they are calmer now, she is 10 and will be 11 in June. I took her to the doctor and that is what they told me was wrong with her. The best thing is to sit down with her and explain to her what is going on with her body and really try to understand and be patient with her. But dont tolerate her being rude to her father or hateful to her siblings. Its one thing to cry at a drop of a hat or slam the bedroom door but a complete other when she is disrespting others. There are books and websites out there that outline the changes of a girls body when they begin the process of their menstrual cycle to hep you and her understand what is going on. Best of luck to you, (st. johns wort works wonders and is natural)

I'm probably paranoid, but I went through this with my kids. It turns out they were being sexually molested by the babysitters teenage son. I couldnt afford counseling either, but it became not a choice, but a necessity. I went to Arizona Interfaith Counseling, they do have a sliding scale, at times I paid only 22 dollars an hour.

I have not been through this so I am just guessing here, but the people she is having the most trouble with based on your email is men and boys. Is it possible that a boy at school said or did something to hurt her feelings and she is taking it out on all men? Also have you checked into eye or hearing problems. This is a bit of a stretch but when I was 9 I needed glasses and I didn't tell anyone that I couldn't see the board at school. But I got very tired from all the squinting and trying to get my work done when I couldn't see what the teacher was writing. My grades started to slip and the problem was finally figured out by my teacher who saw me squinting trying to see the board. I didn't act out quite like your daughter but it could be some medical problem that is hard to diagnose that is just making her not feel well and so she is grumpy.
Like I said I haven't been through this so I don't exactly know, but I hope maybe something I said will help you.
Good Luck!

You need to go to a good family psychotherapist with your daughter to deal with this. Something is definitely wrong, and if her teachers, pediatrician and school psychologist won't help, there is something wrong with them! So go to a private one--just you and her and no one else. You need to first eliminate the possibility that she could be abused in some way by some male in her life. (Do not assume this) That's a scary thought, but the first thing you need to eliminate, because she's old enough to discuss most anything else with you. The next question is a hard one: Are you really, really listening to your daughter (not just talking)? If you do, and this is not always easy for parents, you might find something out... Stay with her, in any case, and do not withhold your love and affection. She really, really needs you! Blessings to you...

Hi my name is M. i feel for you in your situation with your daughter. i would try some counseling play therapy with someonethat specializes in this with children. she might have had something happend to her and is hurting and frightened. with play therapy things will come out. is she feeling not loved becuase of the other children i don't know but would be nice to find out. What happened around her or to her about one year ago. what do you think made her behavior change and continues this way. get professional help for her before she gets worse. i hope this helps. good luck

D.,

In addition to all that has been said, I would also recommend a parenting book called "Parenting with love and logic" - there is one specifically for teens and though your daughter isn't a teen yet, she is heading that way. My daughter was a sweet little girl until about 9 and then she changed - was defiante, wouldn't listen and though se knew everything. She didn't have younger siblings at the time, nor did she isolate herself - but she questioned authority daily. She is now 21 and a lovely young lady - married with a son. So there is light at the end of the tunnel. There could be so many things going on with your daughter with body changes, hormones and such. Keep your mind open to whatever it could be, always give love and follow your instincts. If you keep thinking of one issue - fully investigate it - even going to counseling if needed - good luck!

Hi D.,
Sorry to hear about the struggle you are having with your family. I think this behavior is a little out of control, and you do need to nip it in the bud!! (so to speak) I agree with some of the other mothers, get a second opinion. Your "mothers Intuition" is not incorrect, if you truly believe some thing isn't right it probably isn't. Communication is key right now, with the daughter as well as the Dad. The little ones need to be reassured that everything is gonna be O.K. You need to let her know that she can come to you, and tell you if she is being violated, insecure, unhappy...etc, etc. Taking off the bedroom door is one of the best ideas I've heard. :0) BE firm and stick to your guns, but take time to nuture, and love. There is nothing wrong with a little "tough Love"
Good luck, and keep us updated.
K.

Could this be a cry for attention? Have you tried spending quality time with just her? Maybe both you & your husband need to take 30 min. a day to spend with just her. It is hard being the oldest sibling. We have four children & work full time but we try to spend a little time with all our kids each day. Even if it is just sitting & doing homework one on one. I know how hard it is but it does make a difference to spend just a little one on one time with each child. Good Luck!!

Have you considered that she might be starting puberty? I know that it is hard to think of your little girl starting her period, but it is poss. I have a 9 YO too. I wouldn't like hearing that about her, but if that is the case, you may be able to understand her moods better. Just a thought.

I hate to ask, but is it possible that a male figure has molested your daughter. I only wonder because you describe her as being loving with you and your youngest daughter but won't go near your husband and son. It seems she is avoiding men/boys. Have you sat down with your daughter with no one else around and asked if anyone hurt or touched her. This could explain the change in behavior over the last year, and wanting to be alone at school and the acting out. I hope that I am not correct, but this is the first thing I thought of when I read your story.

I would contact your insurance carrier and get her to see a regular psychologist outside of the school. Get her into some therapy to see why she is feeling the way she does. There is something wrong when a social person stops being social all of a sudden. It is best to go and find out what the problem is from a professional psychologist rather then try to deal with it on your own and have the problem get worse.

you need to run away with your daughter. Alone, just the 2 of you for an entire half day (if that what it takes). take a long walk (or bike ride...) with a back pack of things that you like and things that she likes. Just enjoy yourselves, share something together, no pressure, no questions, no discussions. she will suddenly open up and ask you a question about what is really troubling her. you will be surprised at what is going thru her mind. it always works.she remembers the good old days (she was an only child for 3 years)

Hi, You sound like a wonderful mom and dad. We went though that with our daughter. It could be hormones she is fighting becoming a young lady. Maybe try a daughters day out lunch, shopping, a new hair do. I found out it was a self asteem problem with my daughter. Maybe a couple new outfits and a new hair do to make her feel pretty and that you know she is getting older. Not sleezy clothes but something more age appropriate. Not little girl clothes. It helped my daughter alot. It was a hormone,attention,self-asteem for our daughter. It is hard to grow up in today's society. Children are cruel maybe someone at school is making fun of her. That was my daughters case. Good Luck !! She will come around let her know your always there for her. We have a great relationship now and she tells me everything. Keep that communication open. Dad needs a day out with her also. We have dads day 1 x a month. Mine is every wednesday dinner and shopping, just walking around the stores and talking. She needs you now really bad at this age. Many Blessings!!!

Have you tried just some one on one time with your daughter? We have special "date nights" set up with each child. That way they each feel special when we take them out. I am a teacher and it definitely sounds like you child is having some self esteem issues. I would recommend reading a book together as well. There are numerous sources on line. Her anger is real to her. It's a matter of getting to the root of it. Her negative feelings towards her dad are coming from somewhere...sometimes it's painful, but it does help to really reflect on how he is being treated by everyone in the family. Does that make sense?? I wish you the best. Good luck. I hope things get better for you.

Hello, D., I am sorry you and your entire family are going through a clearly hellish time.
May I ask a few questions, if you don't mind? (it could help with feedback from other mothers)
what method of discipline have you done since she was a child?

did it work?

has this come out of nowhere or has it been escalating over a period of years?

is this a total departure from a "once sweet child" or has she always been difficult?

what do you do when she abuses her siblings?

is she getting away with things as in "the punishment is not as severe as the infraction?"

my opinion: she is running your home. she cannot be allowed to do this. strip her of every privilege she has and by that i mean she has a bed and food to eat and that's that. there was a time when we had to take the door out of our stepdaughter's room because she was only allowed privacy to change or use the bathroom (she used the bathroom to change). that also helped with her slamming her door.
there are things that are natural at this age. those things are not. out of control is a good way to describe it. you and your husband need to re-establish it and it's not going to be easy, but this...isn't easy and if it doesn't get fixed it will only get worse.
don't despair, things will get worse for a bit but she will eventually come around and comply because...well, she won't have a choice. as a mother you need to protect the heart and little minds of the siblings who are growing up with so much hatred, this could potentially scar them forever. it's tough, because you love all your kids equally, but you must protect the little ones right now above all. I wish you the best~
Very sincerely,
Ileana

Have you tried "talking" to her-your daughter. It almost sounds like she's wanting your attention. Sometimes we overlook the simplest things that are right in front of us! You might try having a family meeting after speaking with her directly. Hope that helps!

My suggestion is to involve her in Big Brothers Big Sisters they will assign her a BIG sister to hang out with at least once a month. They talk and play and do all kinds of fun things together. It gives her another BIG person she can talk to and trust. BBBS also checks all their BIGS extensively. I know I was one. They even checked on my limits on car insurance. The time I spent with my little was special to both of us and the impact it has on their lives is amazing. Also see if her school counselor has talked to her and helped her find better ways to "vent"
Website for Big Brothers Big Sisters in case you want it.

http://www.bbbs.org/site/c.diJKKYPLJvH/b.1632631/k.3195/O...

HOpe this helps

First and this may sound harsh but your husband need to get over being HURT from his 9 yr old daughter and keep trying. My thoughts were can you think back to an event that happened that facilitated her behavior change? It seems to have something to do with boys. I know it's hard to think about or even suggest but has she been around a boy who knows what age that may have hurt her.(I'm sorry) a sibling of someone that she plays with etc. Her outward actions seem to be a response to inward feeling and at nine she isn't able to verbalize what she feels so she is acting out. She may be afraid to say something. Just think about it and if nothing else works, see a psychologist. Sometimes they are needed and are trained. If you don't get to the bottom of it, it will only get worse and you and your husband can't live this way for long. Ask question to try and get her to talk.

D., my sister had a similar situation with her daughter about a year ago (she is now 7). Her daughter was quite a handful and VERY headstrong. My sister had her in school and she blew UP! Now my sister is completing her first year homeschooling her daughter, with the attention to her specific needs she had seen a huge improvement with attitude, behavior and also sleep. Just a thought, feel free to contact me and I'll explain more or give my sisters info for you to contact her.
Take care and hang in there....God knows you and your family and intentionally put you ALL together so pray and keep diligent.
Sincerely,
S.

I am not a professional by any means and it is very hard to make a judgment without meeting your daughter...however, based upon your description I would get her in to see a child psychologist. Perhaps it is nothing major that a little behavior modification therapy couldn't fix. The thing that concerns me is her desire for isolation and her violence towards her brother. Some of this is normal but the degree your describing does not sound normal to me. If left alone, this behavior will probably only get worse as she moves towards the teen years. In fact, her behavior sounds like that of a 14 year old, not nine. I don't think it would hurt to have her professionally evaluated and sometimes they will give you the first session free....look on line. Good luck!

Hello D.,

You may need to take her to a counseler. It seems like she has a problem with men and boys. Did someone say something to her or hurt her that is a male figure? I think you need help and fast before she does hurt her brother or someone else including herself.

D.

D.,
That seems a little more extreme than normal. I hated by brother at that age, but I loved my father. Most girls adore their fathers. I think it was the same for my brother. Lots of kids "hate" their families at that age (through about 18 :))but, she should still have friends at school. It sounds like she is withdrawing for a reason. Forget the school psychologist and try getting a psychologist out of the school. She could be acting like this for a lot of reasons. I would call my insurance to see what mental health coverage you have.

I hate to even bring it up but have you ever had the "it's ok to tell me if anyone touched you" talk?

Keep us posted. Good luck. I always thought girls were loving and thought we were great until they were 13 (then all the sudden we don't know anything) maybe she's just early.

I hate to admit it, but I do agree with Kelly C. I think that maybe you need to have a discussion with her about good touching and bad touching. It is a really difficult subject, but I knowour pediatrician always talks to my daughter about it when we go to the Dr.s, maybe yours can help as well. If she is being more agressive towards males, maybe she is having some problems (Maybe not even touching) with a male in her life. I is probibly not daddy, but he is the easiest male to punish for what she is going through. I would definately sit her down and ask her. Make sure you tell her that it is not her fault IF she is going through something. Good luck and keep us posted.

So, your daughter is acting out toward her father and her brother? Is it possible that there is another man in her life that might have hurt her, or has made her feel uncomfortable?

Hi D.,

I am a health counselor and would like to ask you some questions about your daughter. I have some ideas; but need more specific info before responding. Please call my office at ###-###-####.

Warm Regards,
G. Van Luven

You should get her into counseling maybee there is something more going on than you realize. She needs an objective place to work on her anger, fears, frustrations and other emotions she doesnt know how to deal with. I hope you can see past her behavior and try to get to the source of it before she feels like a bad kid. As she gets older it will only get worse keep trying to connect with her as much as you can. Hang in there don't give up on her!

Hi D.,

What natural treatments have you tried? Have you considered changing her diet or adding in vitamins and nutrient supplements? Has she had any neurotransmitter testing or food allergy testing done? Is she involved in any sports?

Sincerely,
Life Sculpting Team
www.lifesculpting.biz

If you don't think you can deal with it at home, there are wonderful child counselors at PCH. I think they even come out to the higley campus. They will be able to give your family some different advice.
good luck
kat

If you are plugged into a church seek biblical counseling. There is nothing that God can't fix.

Have you tried having her talk with another adult that she trusts? Perferrable a female because she has a secret that she needs to tell someone other than yourself. This response is from the heart. V.

get her into some kind of counsiling