5 Year Old Making Me Nuts

oooh wow!

First of all, the spankings will work if done consistently and with love, not out of anger.

However, it sounds like she may have ADHD...only a dr can say.

I have an extremely active 3 year old, so if my child were to exhibit that type of behavior, I would #1 re-evaluate my relationship with Daddy and are we doing well and showing affection to each other in front of him and spending time with each other in front of him and #2 re-evaluate how consistent the discipline is. If any 1 or both of these things are out of wack...then I would fix them. Also, remember, at this age you have to look for the small victories.

I know a lady who had a little girl that would hyperventilate every time she got upset and just throw the worst fit. She did this for a year and a half before finally quitting that behavior...and their discipline was spanking out of LOVE and consistent every single time. Now that behavior has gone away completely.

Being a mom is so hard sometimes. But the results are worth it to be consistent in all circumstances.

That is how our little ones gauge our love for them!

I agree about the book "Don't Make Me Count To Three"...good advice!!!

Also, contact Southeast Christian for their parenting classes. Good stuff!

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"Don't Make Me Count to Three!" by Ginger Plowmman is a very helpful book. It not only addresses behavior...but the heart condition that's at the root of the problem. She's a mom and writes in a very easy to read style. I highly recommend it. It's been very helpful to me!

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I didn't mean to make this so long, but I feel for you and have found the best, most logical and sensible author on the subject...

I am a follower of John Rosemond, the best parenting expert and author you could find. He describes your daughter's behavior to a T in his books, and teaches how to change your parenting in order to get her under control. His book John Rosemond's Six Point Plan for Raising Happy Healthy Children would be an excellent place to start. She obviously doesn't respect you; it's time to lower the boom and get her under control, as she is only going to get worse. When she is having a tirade, put her in her room for an hour, and then if she is calm (and in my home the room better also be clean) she may come out. We turn the doorknob around on the door so that we can lock the door and our kids can't come out when they want to be obnoxious. It gets her out of your face so that it is not so upsetting to you and the family and you can also calm down. Also, take away what is most dear to her (a favorite toy/blanket/privilege/whatever) when she is being terrible, and give her a week or month to earn it back with good behavior. Also, tell her what you will do rather than telling her what to do as often as you can think of it: "I will open the door in one hour if there is no screaming and the room is clean"; "I will return the beloved toy when there is no sassing for a week".

These ideas are just a start. His website is www.rosemond.com, and his newspaper column last week was excellent, and will be continued this week. The way most people parent these days is a far cry from the child rearing of our grandparents, and they sure didn't have all the issues we have today with violent, spoiled, lazy, bratty, self-centered kids.

A couple of the first things that John Rosemond always says are that the marriage is the primary relationship in the home - the children come after that; and, you shouldn't be paying so much attention to the child that she has no need to pay any attention to you. She should be keeping track of you and what you are doing. Don't anticipate her "needs" and take care of them. She needs to come to you for her needs, and be concerned all the time with where you are... not the other way around. I know this is totally backward from what so many parents do these days, but if you watch their kids, they are helpless, insecure, and often disrespectful to their parents. Also, tell her "no" as often as you want, and stick to it. If kids don't learn to deal with frustration, you end up with adults that can't handle frustration - they are the ones throwing things, going postal, not getting along at work, etc. The more "no's", the better, and stick with it.

Anyway, I can't recommend John Rosemond enough, and you won't hear what he has to say from anyone else, and his methods worked on his own kids, and they are working on mine. Another thought that he says: say what you mean, and mean what you say. Don't just hope that she will do what she was told (like stop climbing on the guests). Tell her before hand that there will be none of that, and as soon as she does it, march her off to her room for an hour. That will get the message across to her, and show her that you are serious. Be so vigilant with everything she does, and she will start behaving. It will take a few weeks, and she will test you all day long, but this boorish behavior needs to stop.

Also (I keep thinking of things I've read by John Rosemond), the more attention a child gets, the more she wants, and will whine/screech/howl and behave poorly to get it. It's not that they need so much attention. Just as the more candy a child gets the more she wants, the same goes for attention and anything else. They don't need to be tended to all day at her age; that is just modern psychobabble and breeds the kind of behavior you don't want. In order to become an imaginative, creative, independent child/adolescent/adult, she needs to learn to play on her own and entertain herself, knowing that you are always there if she NEEDS you. If she can't entertain herself, she is lacking in imagination and creativity, and is probably watching too much tv and probably has too many toys. My boys can entertain themselves for hours, with just about anything (a rope, foam paintbrushes, legos, etc. have been popular lately).

Good luck to you, and I hope you get help with whatever is dragging you down and making you tired. I've been there myself, and started seeing a Naturopathic Physician, who finally diagnosed me with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. No MD ever figured that out; they would just do the T3, T4 and TSH tests, which were always normal, but never bothered to check for thyroid antibodies, which mine were very high, meaning that my body is waging an autoimmune attack on my thyroid. The ND put me on an anti-inflammatory diet and has me taking iodine and other things, and I'm like a new person, without drugs, and I have finally gotten pregnant as well, because of her, and the bald spots on my head have started filling in after five years of a receding hair line. And all this without drugs. It was a little spendy, as my insurance didn't cover her, but I've gotten more help in 8 months with her than in 15 years of seeing MDs, and with all the deductibles and copays, I probably didn't spend any more with her than I would have (getting no help) with my insurance at an MD.

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I think you need to get your child evaluated. It could be that she is just adhd, or wanting attention, or whatever. But she could also have other issues going on that you need to know how to handle. How does she interact with other children? The way you describe her behaviour when company comes reminds me of my friend's daughter. They finally determined that she had a mild case of aspergers. If you are not familiar with that, it is like a form of autism. Whatever it is, there is definitley something going on and the sooner you figure it out the better it will be for all of you. Good luck and God bless!

Here are three things for you to check out:

1. a book called How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen so Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish

2. a teaching/prenting approach called Conscious Discipline, pioneered by Becky A. Bailey, Ph.D., a teacher and expert in childhood education and developmental psychology

3. the Feingold Diet, a dietary test to determine if certain foods or food additives are triggering particular symptoms (and CAN be a drug alternative)

Best of luck, E.!

Hi E.,

The years of 3, 4, and 5 years can be very exhausting for mamas! I know, I have a 6 yo and an-almost 3 yo. The behaviors you're describing are extremely normal and typical of a child her age. Kids in these preschool years can make a good mom who is usually patient and loving into a yelling, out-of-control mama.

Your little girl is capable of being cooperative and courteous, she needs those character qualities called upon. As parents we tend to freak out when our child misbehaves to extremes by thinking about how we can punish (emotionally or physically hurt them) so that they won't do whatever they are doing again. Unfortunately punishment is not effective and in the process we do a lot of damage to our relationship with our child.

First, I think you need to know what a compassionate and honest mom of integrity you are for reaching out and asking for help and support. Why would any of us know how to deal with this kind of thing? We've never done it before!

Through my work as a professional parent coach, I work with moms of children in the preschool years specifically on these misbehaviors. One of the programs I teach is an on-line parenting course (the next one starts in January) called, "Building Stronger Families: Parenting With Virtues."

I know you're a loving, patient, and respectful mom who is being pushed beyond what you can handle right now. I know I can provide you the support and effective discipline tools you need to get things back on track so you can enjoy both your girls - your big one and your baby!

I encourage you to visit my website, sign up for my Free Report "The 3 Secrets to Managing Preschooler Power Struggles," check-out my on-line parenting program where you learn all of the discipline tools you need to feel confident again, and a way to keep in-touch with a coach who can help you every step of the way.

R., Parent Coach
founder,
www.noblemother.com
"Providing support for mamas of preschoolers."

Okay so it looks like you've tried everything that would be normal to try. So let's turn the entire thing around. Kids act up when they want more attention.
So take a day when there's just the three of you and from the first thing in the morning give her the full attention from both of you. Start with her favorite breakfast food and then some cartoons. When she starts acting up, walk off, let her have her fit by herself. When she gets done, or it's time for the next meal, go get her. Again, use her favorite foods for lunch and play a game with her, even let her win.
What I'm getting too is just for one day out of the week let her know that it's her day and at the end of the day let her know that tomorrow is ether your's or daddy's day and she has to repect that.

Also, when she dose start acting out you might want to try what I call the room method. Tell her when she starts acting up that she has her room and needs to go there, and when she decides to be nice can come back out. I've used this method on my own dauther and on the kids I used to babysit, it's worked pretty good.
The idea is to claim the rest of the house or envoriment your in. This should let her know that the kind of behavior she is showing is not tolrated and will not be aloud.

I hope this helps, just remember to keep your cool at all times. Don't let her tantrum get you to yelling. The calmer you stay the shorter they will be. Good luck.

When she act out tell her this is unacceptable behavior and she does not talk to people like that. Put her in time out and tell her when she feels like being a big girl and stop yelling and swearing then she can come out of time out! Make her apologize to everyone in the room, not just the one she was yelling at. because they too had to hear the behavior! If she doesn't want to apologize back to time out!

All your responses are great, especially the books. Another book, that I have loved more than any is called You Can't Make Me, But I Can Be Persuaded, by Cynthia Tobias. She was a hyper kid, ADHD, and she brings a fresh, light hearted approach. We used her techniques when we worked with at-risk boys and it was awesome! Also, taking things away is effective. But, one thing that some parents miss is that often we tell them their behavior is bad, but we don't teach them what to do that is right. When things are calm and she is happy, sit with her and read a book (from the library if necessary) about naughty behavior. There are so many. After reading the book, do some role play. Teach her that when there is conflict she needs to respond correctly and show her what that looks like. Make it a game. Recall a time when she acted out and relive it a little with her, not drawing attention to what caused it, only to how she reacted to it. Then, you act out how she should have responded, then have her do the same thing. Make a chart and if there are very specific ways she acts out that are inappropriate, draw pictures of it and ask her, "When you do act this way, what do you think Mommy and Daddy should do to correct you?" Give her some options - lose TV time, toys, games, play time, whatever you know she likes. If she chooses, it makes her feel you are giving her power and attention, but then when you follow through, she'll know that will fall on her because she chose it! Trust me, she's old enough to get this. I have a 5 year old son with crazy behavior too. BUT, after you two practice proper behavior, ask her how she should be rewarded for it - but it make it small and you give her choices - small scoop of icecream, an extra 10 minutes of play time, whatever. Then, once those good rewards add up in the course of a week, reward her with something bigger - movie time with mom and dad - bowling - something that is not a "thing" but time with you and your hubby building relationships and trust. The key is to teach her when she is happy, not in the middle of the conflict. It will take time, but you will see results if you are consistent and she learns that she doesn't have to push your buttons to get your attention. The biggest problem with bad behavior, I am convinced, is that we do not teach our children how to respond so all they do is react. There is a huge difference between those two things. I had a mentor give me the best example of this. You are either a thermometer or a thermostate. A thermometer "reacts" to the heat around - going up and down according to the circumstances in the room (hot or cold). BUT, a thermostat does not. It's temperature is set and IT controls the hot and cold air in the room - it does not control them. Big difference. My 12 year old gets this concept and we'll ask him - are you being a thermometer or a thermostat? This is great when it comes to peer pressure. Good luck E.. You can do this!!!

Does she just want your attention? If school is new she may be missing the time with you plus with your attention divided with another child in the house. Children will do whatever it takes to get attention - even if it means outlandish behavior. Can you try to set aside time each day after school (30 minutes or 45 minutes) to shower her with attention and do something she likes with her (read books, puzzles, drawing, etc)? That might be something to try before paying for counseling.
I hope you find a solution. All mothers need peace at home!

Get the book, "The Heart of Anger" by Lou Priolo. Excellent!!

Well, I wanted to let you know that we feel your frustration and what you are going through. Please do not take this wrong, but it is almost encouraging or a relief to hear that someone else is going through the same thing as we are with our five year old son. He has also gotten really bad about pushing our buttons. We will tell him to do something and he will yell back "NO", he also will talk about A LOT and we also have tried the spanking (which we also do not like but feel like that is the only way we feel it gets through to him). I have often times felt like we needed SuperNanny to visit our home. I don't know what to offer as advice other than I have been told that it is just a phase and to hang in there and stick to your rules and punishments.

I know this might sound mean but whenever my son would tell me no or talk back I would flick him on the mouth. Just one time with my finger hard enough for him to feel it but not enough to make it bleed. He doesn't talk back and is 14 now and whenever I put my finger in that position he turns away. He knows I will still do it and it worked for me. Sometimes you have to find what pushes her buttons and what gets to her, like favorite toy or something she likes to do, well if she doesn't behave then that is taken away until she can get back on track with her behavor. Make a chart of consequences for the bad behavor and good. I did get some books for ideas so that might be helpful. Good luck

If you are finding that rewards and punishments are not working and that your child seems to push your buttons just to get a reaction and that she likes to argue just for the sake of arguing (you didn't mention that), let me encourage you to do some research on Oppostional Defiant Disorder (you can google it). We are dealing with that with my 8 yr. old, but I knew from the time she was about 3 that something was just not typical about her behavior. Oh how I wish we would've started dealing with it sooner. I'm certainly not saying that your daughter has this - I just want to offer it as an area for you to explore. I had never heard of this disorder unti about 9 months ago, and I'll admit, as first glance it looks like a fancy name for a bratty child. But the more I deal with it, the more I can see it's a real thing. Have you talked with her doctor about her behavior? That would be a good place to start. Good Luck!

We are having very similar problems with our 5-year-old son. I think it is normal for the most part. Monday night, it was like someone flipped a switch and he turned to polite, obedient, helpful, etc. When we got to church last night, he turned back into 5-year-old boy. We'll have to see how today goes.

For your situation, when did it start? Could it be that she desires extra attention since you have a new baby?

I do think one of the keys is keeping calm and your voice "normal" (easier said than done, I know). I have noticed this week, that if I walk away or wait until the whining fit is over, and speak in my normal voice, I get less of a reaction and tantrum.

I have 3 children. One girl age 11, one boy age 9 and one boy age 5. We experienced something similar to this with all of our kids. However, I suggest reading anything written by John Rosemond. I met Dr. Rosemond when my daughter was around 5 and he gave me some advice and looked me in the eyes and told me this will work and I believed him and it did! He does not suggest spanking, which I still do for certain offenses, but he suggests taking everything away from them. They misbehave, take something away. If they choose to not obey, take something away. Another good tactic that worked really well for our home was to spend the day in your room. I use this all the time, if they disobey, fight with each other or talk back, that is an automatic day in your room. No technology is allowed in the room with you (no tv, video games, radio), after dinner, take a bath and go to bed. Even if we eat at 4:30! You may leave the room with my permission to use the bathroom, only! We started this when they were 5 years old because I looked Dr. Rosemond in the eyes and he told me it would work! You only have to do it a few times. Get any book written by him and it will make a difference.

I am sure part of it is a stage but consistent discipline starting immediately will help a lot. You need to sit down with her and have a family meeting. You need to do this at a time when everyone is calm. Talk about the behaviors that you do not like and the consequences that will happen when the behaviors are exhibited. The other thing to do before the family meeting is for you and your husband to really honestly look at your behaviors to see if they are undesirable (like yelling or cussing during times of stress-running late, can't find keys, etc) If you find yourself doing these things then you need to work on changing your behavior before you can expect your child to change hers. A long time ago I was always yelling at the kids when it was time to go to daycare-early AM I opened at the daycare-. One day the answering maching somehow started recording our trying to get out of the house on a typical morning. When I got home I thought there was a message so I started to play it and heard myself yelling, kids crying and all the normal mahiem of our mornings. I sat down and cried when I heard how horrible it sounded after the fact. I promised myself and God that I would start to work on changing my behavior. As soon as I did that I started to change I noticed the kids behavior changing for the better. I apoligized to the kids for yelling at them and they were so forgiving and said they would try to do better when we were in a hurry. We worked together and made mornings along with all the other behaviors much better. Just remember no matter what you want your children to do they will always do as they see-good or bad- not as they are told. I think all people, young and old can find them doing this. If you someone at work being lazy without be reprimanded you feel that you should do the same thing, if your see someone going above and beyond the call of duty, you are more likely to put forth more effort as well. Good Luck!

I suggest asking the teachers at her school if your daughter has any socialization, behavioral, or developmental delays that they have noticed. They have a class full of other 5 year olds, so if she stands out in any way they would know.

If they have noticed things, you might look into getting her evaluated for any developmental delays.

Good luck!

You know, I really think that what you are describing is normal. Kids go through so many stages and each child is different and will do different things and react differently to your punishments. Since nothing has seemed to work, why don't you take a different approach. You probably do need to get you a good child rearing book at the book store (sorry I can't think of any to recommend) but why don't you ignore her. When she is acting silly and wild, just totally ignore her. Just tell her in a calm voice when the ignoring is over that no one wants to pay attention to her when she acts that way. I think that after a while when she doesn't get the attention that she is wanting that she may just give it up. It will take some time. When she is a smart alick and back talk, just take her by her hand and lead her to her room and tell her that you will not deal with that and when she thinks that she can appologize and treat you with a little more respect, she can come out. When she comes out act all happy and act like nothing ever happened. Have fun with her. When she does it again, don't wait, and don't take it, just lead her back to her room, explain again, and then leave. Tell her that she has a right to act anyway she wants but you have a right not to have to put up with it. After about a week of this, she will get tired and stop. She will just get tired.
If nothing else worked, what do you have to lose.
Good luck. But one thing I want to say, no body is going to look at you funny or blame you or think that you are a bad mother. (I use to feel that way). They don't think that. You take everyone else off the table. This is your child, your life, and you raise her the way you see fit, no matter what anyone else thinks or feels. Don't let people intimidate you for the way you disapline or raise your child.
Do the best that you can do and the right thing in your heart and you will raise a wonderful child.
Good luck.

This is very normal behavior (although not acceptable behavior). My girls have all gone through this stage. Anytime someone came over, they believed it was for their individual enjoyment and did everything they could think of to get their attention.

Here is what I am wondering, though: Did she just start kindergarten this year? It looks like she has a new baby sister also. That is a lot of change and she may be thinking it is not fair that sister gets to spend more time with you. She has been used to having your undivided attention for 5 years and now you are dividing your time between 2 children. It may be as simple as her needing some good old-fashioned one-on-one time with you. Try to carve out some special time for her (I know you are a busy mom and it is not as easy as saying it). Make her feel special during your time, by doing the little things she loves (coloring, play dough, a board game, whatever she likes).

When the unacceptable behavior happens, choose whatever works and be very, very consistent. Talk to her about the consequences of her actions: removing her from the room, time out, spanking, whatever you choose. Let the consequences be administered after the first infraction. Do it without much fuss and no anger, you do not want to give her negative attention either.

If you do not see improvement and believe there is more wrong than normal childhood behavior, by all means, contact your doctor, talk to her teachers, investigate further.

By the way, mine did grow out of most of it, but one of them is a natural show-off with her friends. It is just part of her personality and she has and is learning when it is and is not appropriate. It made me smile to remember the way she used to act.

Good luck.

First of all start with your doctor. Have her checked for ADHD. The doctor will evaluate her and then refer you to a counselor or medical treatment. Unless there are a lot of unruly kids in her school, that is not how kids react in school. They are very disiplined on behavior. I would get her checked out first and then go to the next step. Supernanny can't solve every problem.

I wish you luck and will pray for you.

E.

Your daughter could be sensitive to food dyes and preservatives. Check out www.feingold.org. Feingold is a 30yr old non-profit organization whose purpose is to inform the public about petroleum-based artificial ingredients in our food supply. These harmful additives cause ADD,ADHD,OCD and many other emotional, behavioral and physical side effects. Feingold is a leading authority on this subject and has helped thousands of families over the years. It is well worth the time and effort.