12 Yr Old Daughter "Please Help" Causing Serious Problems Within Family/School

I am a retired school Principal and have handled many situations as you describe. Let me give you a few ideas that served me well. First we must find out the problem. Counseling is always a good first step because it helps discover the underlieing problem. Most of the time the prolem is low self-esteem. This counseling should be for the both of you. Often the problem begins at home. You mention that she has two great older brothers that are doing well. If she feels that they are better than her and she can't live up to them, she will either fight or flight. This fear will show itself by arguing with them or leaving them completely alone. Remember, the things that hurt us the most are the things we believe....If she does not like herself why should she do anything to help herself. She problably gets alot of critizism that just proves to her that she is right about herself. She needs to start seeing the good in her. This is where it becomes difficult because I am sure it is hard for you to find some good. I do know this "the greatest gift a person can give to someone is their time. Time is a part of a person life and giving life is the greatest gift of all." She probably needs your time and your belief in her. The opposite of Love is not hate. It is indifference. She seems not to love herself, but has just given up. C., Please understand that this happens to alot of pre-teens. This is a time that young people are going through alot of change and it is a very difficult time for them. You mentioned she is much like you when you were her age. Well, you turned out fine, she will too. Don't give up and let her know you love her.

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So sorry to hear about this heartbreaking issue! I have been there with my oldest. (I have 4 kids). Here's the thing: We can do our best to mold our children, ie. talking, teaching, taking things away, giving consequences,but the bottom line is that our children have free will and can and will use it when it benefits them or even hurts us. I have no answers, but you are right to not give up on your daughter. You need to take her to a neutral spot (Starbucks) or somewhere you can talk. Then very calmly and lovingly tell her what is acceptable in her behavior and what is not. Tell her that she EXPECTS certain things of you (clothes, food, rides to places) and YOU expect things of her (respect, an effort and participation in your family). Tell her that if she doesn't uphold her end of the bargain, then you don't have to either - meaning she will not be able to expect new shoes, overnights w/friends, etc. Then tell her what you love about her (your intelligence, the way she sticks to her opinions, etc) and tell her that you LOVE her first and foremost no matter what and that you believe in her and what a wonderful lady she can become. Now, I do not know if you are christian or not and do not be offended if you are not - BUT you need to pray for her life, her future and pray for guidance for raising her. You can remind her that though she may not like the decisions you make as her mom, you will have to someday answer to GOD for those choices and you hope to have done well. Tell her that GOD loves her and has given her great gifts that she needs to use.
Hang in there - I am praying for you. You are NOT a bad mom.

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Wow I am now home schooling my 14 year old.The school we have is ecot,Electronic Class of Tomorrow based in Columbus Ohio.The number is 18883268395.Call them and just ask questions.They will give you a pc but it will only connect to their web site.I would talk to your daughter and tell her first you must do all of your work at the school she is attending now,no more problems until you get online schooling started.But if you DONT do your work with home schooling then you leave us no choice to put you back in the public school. Sometimes our children need a break from the public schools with the other children.good luck

C.,
Seek family counseling or coaching immediately. You need to nip this in the bud before your daughter gets older. With each year you will loose more ground. Congratulate yourself for asking for help.
M.

C., going to a conseler would be the best thing! I started acting out and no one helped me they just kept taking things away or yelling and I only got worse. 10 years later I stood up and went for myself. There may a big problem in her life that she is scared to talk with you about and shes acting out instead. Good luck

At this point, the question is not "who caused this" or "how did this happen", but "where do we go from here? and how do we help her?"

I was thinking it sounded like me at that age too. I had an older sister and younger sister and brother, and it was basically "competing for attention." I remember being really mad that I was participating in sports, and my parents seemed more interested in going to my siblings sporting events than mine, and was mad they never came to mine and told them so.

I also remember my freshman year in HS, I flunked a class and had to take summer school. To my defense, it was a religion class at a catholic school, and I had already had k-8 at a catholic school....so it wasn't just me...the teacher had at least some contribution to it too. BUT it only took one summer of summer school for me to realize that it was NOT something I wanted to have happen again. Also - stress to her that you're not asking her to compete with the twins and getting A's, but you know she can do better than she is, and that's all you're asking for - is for her to "do better" - at least try for B's and/or C's.

1) counseling is a GREAT idea.
2) She needs to find something she's good at that she's interested enough to want to "go the extra mile" and something that you can give her praise for that is equal to the praise for the twins for doing so well in school, etc.

Let her know that when she acts responsibly - keeping her grades at acceptable levels, helping with chores, etc. - that there are "benefits" - just like there are consequences when she acts irresponsibly. "Benefits" can include a family movie night where she gets to pick the movie or getting to have her favorite dinner that night or something.

There's got to be something that's important enough to her to warrant her putting in the effort. Keep trying to find it - but give counseling a try in the meantime.

Good luck!

This must be so tough for you to be going through! And I would disagree completely with family members---how is this at all your fault? YES, my #1 suggestion would be counselling, first for her, and then family counselling if necessary. Have you ever spoken to your pediatrician or family doctor about this? He/she would be able to steer you in the right direction.

I am not a big homeschooling fan--but there are definitely children who do better with homeschool. My second daughter had a great experience with public school and her younger sister did not--in retrospect I wish I had homeschooled the youngest. I also recomend the book "Yes, Your Teen is Crazy" by Dr Mike Bradly, the absolute best parenting book I have ever read.He also has a book for the teens to read, Yes, your parent is crazy!. I remember in desparation trying one of the ideas from the book with my youngest thinking it was not going to work and when it did I almost fell over. And get your husband to read it too--being disrespectful to your daughter is not how to teach her to be respectful! Drugs are not the only way or the best way to treat ADD--diet and herbs can be helpful as well as NO TV!

It is tough with a kid like this. My oldest boy was similar. He had no motivation. All he wanted to do was lay in his room and read. He got grounded all the time, but it didn't hurt him any because he got to go to his room and read.

If I could go back and do it over, I would make him responsible for helping around the house, I would get him involved in some community service.

Do you take her to church? Does she believe in God and the bible? Have you tried to tell her that one of the commandments is honor thy mother and father?
When she is in a good mood, have you tried to talk about the times she is not cooperative?

I would try this if I were you: Have her help with preparing dinner whenever possible, make her do dishes every night. Saturday mornings, make her responsible for vacuuming the house. If she doesn't want to make it in school, then she has to have some skills to help her through life.
Let her know that you are responsible for teaching her survival skills. That in 6 years she will be an adult and must be able to take care of herself by then. If she doesn't want to do good in school, she will have to get a different type job- hotel maid, restaurant worker, etc.

As for her mouthing off- ignore it for the most part. Simply state: "you can say whatever you want, as long as you get this job done in 30 minutes" or whatever time limit.

When her father is dealing with her, let him. If he doesn't like the way she is talking to him and wants to punish her, let him. It will be the best thing you can do for her and him. Let her know you & hubby are going to stick together and she can't look to you to get out of anything. Kids love to play their parents against each other. When she sees you disagree on how something is handled she will try it again and again. Girls are especially good at getting their way- I have a daughter, so I know.

Also, I loved my kids more than anything in the world and now they are grown up I know that was wrong. Love your husband more than anything. He will be there when the kids are gone. Concentrate on what will make your marriage and life together better. If the daughter is interfering with that, take it out on her, not your husband.

Good luck. God bless!

Wow! Good to know that she has been diagnosed with ADD. This HAS to be the main problem. If she is not being properly medicated, then she is probably experiencing all of these problems at school due to her ADD. If you think about it, school is where she needs to stay focused and be attentive. The ADD is making it VERY hard for her to accomplish tasks, be in relationships with her peers, and keep up with the mainstream class. I think that it is imperitive that she goes back on the medication. There is quite a difference between home and school. She can be herself at home, and still have that unconditional love from her family, but, at school, there is a lot more expected from her and that is just proving to be way too hard for her. I will bet that she is filled with complete frustration, and her "acting out" is the biproduct of these feelings of frustration. It is not that she is doing this on purpose, it is the ADD. Which by the way, is not in her control. Her self esteem needs to be boosted. She needs some great accomplishments at school along with praise. I just hope she starts taking her meds...give it time, and she will start showing progress at school, gaining some true friendships, and over-all, start feeling good about herself!

Counseling is a great start. In addition, has she been tested for learning issues, developmental vision problems which would impact her learning, developmental delays, auditory processing, depression etc? If you've ruled out all of those, here's one suggestion I read a few years back that I've kept in mind for future use myself... See if you can go to school with your daughter, sit in the back of the room, and shadow her everywhere until she starts behaving properly. The embarrassment alone could straighten her up pretty quickly. Definitely no privileges as well, including phone, tv, internet. Unfortunately to really impact on her, you have to pretty much inconvenience yourself and the rest of the family as well. (That's always the part I hate!) But hang in there! I hope it gets better quickly.

I agree with everyone that you need to get her into some kind of counselling or therapy. Both my husband and my 9 year old have been diagnosed with depression and there is the chance they may have borderline personality disorder. Everything you wrote sounds very familiar with what was going on with my daughter. I would at least mention the depression to whomever you have her see.

Best of luck to you!

Start with seeking help from a counselor that works with family issues. If the counselor doesn't work then I would consider the posbbibility of sending her to a military school. It know it seems harsh, but sometimes tough love, even at that age, is what is needed. You do not need to take the rap for anything because this is not your fault. Another possibility that you may want to look into is whether or not she may be using any type of drugs. That can totally change a child's behavior. I know at that age we don't want to even think that our child(ren)may be doing this, but it is a very real situation for kids at that age as well. It may just be a phase, but it could be something more. Definitely start with seeking the counseling. I wish you the best!

D.

I am 31 and have been married for 12 yrs. My husband and I have 3 boys ages 10,7, and 4.

Hi C. - This sounds so tough...hang in there. You mentioned home schooling, and that your'e new to the area. If you're in Ohio, I wanted to point out that Ohio has two free computer-based "public school" options. You choose the program you like best (they have all kinds of cool classes) and they bring a computer to your house with all the equipment you neeed to connect to the teachers. A friend of mine has a kid with ADHD who was kind-of an "outsider" kid. She did this program for two years, which helped her "get her feet on the ground." She just started high school this year, and is getting straight A's and joining all kinds of clubs. It worked out great. Not saying it's a cure-all, but if you're afraid to home school--you don't have to be! It's all done for you! Good luck.

I think counseling would be the best place to start. It will help you and your daughter. And it would be nice to have someone outside the situation shed some light on what's going on. And also let someone else be the heavy for once. I know a lot of parents going this route for help and it does help. Make sure this is a family thing. Everyone needs to be supportive of each other. Do not give the kids an option but hopefully your husband will care enough to be there too. Another idea is to get your family involved in church. There is a different atmosphere in a friendly church setting versus a school. Best wishes to you.

I would like to say more in this response but I am not having the time right now....I will be praying for you and your family and your daughter...I do know of a great counsler in Medina Square, if you are interested. you can email me. ____@____.com

C., while I agree it is worth trying counseling, finding a good counselor who won't become "snowed" by the charming, sweet side your daughter shows some people may not be an easy task. One of my step daughters and my youngest daughter (who joined our family when she was 8) both have mental health issues that make counseling almost useless. Although most people won't tell you this, sometimes there is no cure for these behaviors. If the person isn't willing to take responsibility for their actions, no amount of counseling will change it. It is, in that case, essential for you to do as much as you can to minimize the stress and emotional damage to the rest of your family. I sincerely hope you don't find your situation to be like ours, but if you do, know you have an understanding ear just an email away.

C. first I'm sorry this is going on but I do have one main question. Did all of this start when you started working?? Maybe she misses you being home at nights or is scared with you being gone even if she won't say it. Maybe something has happend while you were at work that she just won't talk to you about. I think the counseling sounds like a good idea and I would also talk to her doctor to see what he/she has to say about this behavior. Kids can be total strangers to their own families and sometimes the problem is right in front of your nose and you don't even know it. Good luck..

Speaking from experience---get her to take the meds. There are now patches as well, I do not know anything about them though. I am sure that you have done a lot of research on the ADD, and you know that these kids can't be dealt with in the same way as kids without it. The thing that turned us around (my step son has ADHD) one-the right meds (and he fights taking them) but also us thinking outside the box when it comes to dealing with issues. A lot of post-it notes around the house helps. And the best thing was getting books from the library that are spoken from a childs point of view. She may not understand why she is the way she is-she just knows that she is different than her peers and it gets her in trouble. If she understands and knows she isnt alone with it and knows that you understand-then you can work it out together and come up with solutions. Arm her and yourself with knowledge---knowledge is power!!
just a few things that worked for us--good luck--no matter what-you are going to have bad days-and so is she.

Have you ever considered having her tested for an Emotional Disorder. I know that sounds rough, but this sounds like a typical ED student. You would have to go through special education to have her tested. I would also talk to your doctor about it. I hope this helps.

Just to give you a few ideas. Have you ever tried taking her to phycologist? Sometimes it helps to get someone outside the family that you can talk to. Someone that isn't going to run back to mom and tell her everything. I have another question that isn't an easy thing to ask or to answer. There isn't any way that she has been molested? It almost happened to me as a child by an aunt by marriage. I withdrew raither then say something. Just something else to think about. Good luck. My 3 kids are teens and they are trying at best sometimes. I know how hard it is.

Hi C.,
I think I might be able to shed a little light here for you. I have seven children ranging from 31 to 5 year old twins. Both my 20 year old and 13 year old had similar issues. One had ADD and the other has ADHD and a whole slew of other mental issues. The first thing I would recommend is looking at her diet. We found that the oldest daughter had food allergies, mostly to red food die, grapes, orange juice and a few other things. When we eliminated most of those foods, her behavior became manageable. We did home school her because we couldn't find the right fit in public schools and private was too expensive. There are lots of online programs to homeschool with, and some of the public schools will allow you to participate in electives and still homeschool. Our 13 year old we found is in addition to the ADHD, also on the autism spectrum. She is very difficult to manage at school and we recently put her in a "BEST" classroom for the behaviors. The student to teacher ratio is very low and she is thriving now. I would ask for the DOE to do a "behavior consultation" with a psychologist. Don't let what others think get you down, until they have walked in your shoes, they have no idea what this is like to deal with.. I stopped a long time ago trying to respond to others opinions about our daughter, we know we did not create this problem, we are just trying to fix it, as I'm sure you are trying with your daughter. I don't know where you live, but here in South Bend we have the Madison Center for Behavioral Health, and I am very impressed with their services and their staff. Don't let this beat you down, keep your chin up, and keep looking for the answers!

C., let me begin by saying, my heart goes out to you. I used to work with youth in the Jr. High age and I have a niece that has been giving her parents kind of the same issues. They sought counseling, and that has helped a lot, and they also homeschooled her for a year. I know she may not say it, but more of your attention is one of the things she needs. She will probably resist at first, and even be obstinant- this is her subconcious way of "testing your love."
I would recommend anything by Dr. Ray Guarendi. He is a psychologist and gives practical, sound advice. He has 10 adopted kids- and had 6 teenagers at once, so needless to day, I respect the man! On his website, I think you can even email him. God bless and I will be praying that you find some solutions and can re-connect with your daughter.

I think u should look into one of the "scare straight" programs so she can see that if she keeps going this way it can show her what can happen if she doesn't get good grades and respects adults. I personally was going through something like that but i sent my son w/grandma i hate it b/c he is my son, but to be honest it was the best thing i did for him. he is going to school has good grades now and his attitude has totally changed. sounds like your daughter needs to loose everything so she can learn how good she has it. Good Luck.

C.,

This is my first time responding to someone, although I read this site almost daily.

I also commend you in "reaching out for help".

I noticed in telling us about yourself you started working in the last four years. I was wondering if there could be a link between your time away and her "acting out". These years of a girls life is also when hormomes start to make a young lady feel different. She may not know how to best handle the things she feels. She may not even be able to verbalize her true feelings. Part of what she may need is to know how special she is to you and for you to make a special effort to spend time with her. Find her interests and invest in them with her or even try to develop new "interests" together. I know that when I was young these times were priceless although at the time I didn't act like I even cared if they happened. She may have some of these needs and not recognize them.

She may also feel some "pressures" to be like her brothers or that she may need to compete with them.

Loving our children in these difficult times is hard. I encourage you to continue to "not give up on her". She will notice. If not now, in the future.

Just a few thoughts. Hope they are helpful in some way.

Peace,
D.

wow...seems like your in a rough spot. I feel that talking to a "professinal" in this case would benefit you more than talking to friends or family.
Seek out the school guidance counselor, your family physician for referral to psychiatrist or even a social worker. All those people can point you in the right direction without being judgemental.......
good luck!

We started having problems with our daughter about that time, not as bad but nonetheless, still was hard to take. She is now 17 and we finally went to a councelor "Leslie Marshall" at Central College Christian Counseling. Only my husband and I went as we needed tools to help us in knowing how to deal with her behavior and disrespect at home. We implemented the instructions given to us by the councelor and the book she walked us through and our house has been UNBELIEVABLY changed. I didn't think it would work for our family but IT DID!!! I am thrilled and would love to pass along my experience.

I had custody of my 14 year old neice for a year, because her mother and her didn't get along at all. They were too much alike and their personalities clashed. My neice flunked a class and had to take summer school when she lived with her mother. The year that she lived with me, she got very good grades, but it wasn't easy... My husband and I had to spend hours every single night sitting with her and helping with her homework. She was so unmotivated. We gave her a chance at the beginning of the year to do her schoolwork on her own, but that resulted in missing assignments and failing grades. She said the teachers hated her and treated her differently than the other kids. So we had a meeting with the teacher of her worst subject. It was very interesting to find out that my neice was just playing us and being extremely lazy. The teacher was preparing her students for the Ohio Graduate Test, so it was a little more difficult than she was used to. Anyway, the school provided the students with planners to enter all their homework assignments in. Every single class, I would have her teachers sign off on her daily assignments- meaning that my neice would write the assignment down, then the teacher would initial it at the end of class verifying that it was the assignment given in class. I checked her assignment book every night to ensure everything was completed before she went to bed. I would give her a chance to do it on her own, then go over the things that were wrong or that she couldn't figure out on her own....hence the hours of homework each night. It was exhausting, but it worked. Another problem we had, she complained a lot about the kids picking on her. They would harass her and throw food at her and so on. She was on the heavier side, but not extremely fat. This also was exagerated on her part. Yes they did these things, but in response to her actions and attitude. She is very immature for her age, and it shows. She brought a lot of it on herself. I got her into counseling, which seemed to help, but since she went back to her mother, she's stopped taking her. My neice also had a total lack of respect for authority, but she was starving for acceptance, approval, and encouragement. I tried everything I could, but with her mother still influencing her, it made it impossible to keep her. Giving her back was the hardest decision I've ever had to make. I'm still active in her life, but she's back to getting failing grades and fighting with everyone. In her defense, she does have emotional problems that she just doesn't know how to work through properly. Very angry at times and can't control herself. The best way we were able to calm her down, was to hug her until she broke down. That's all she really wanted.

Sorry this was so lengthy. The main point I wanted to make was that maybe the assignment book with the teacher's signatures would help get her on track. Set aside a block of time each evening for just the two of you to do her homework. She'll relish the 1 on 1 time, I'm sure. Even her father helping her would probably be a great step in mending their relationship (positive attention). Good Luck.

Hi C.,

Your story about your daughter reminded me of being her age, and how much I absolutely hated going to school then. I made good grades and had a fairly outgoing personality, but was decidedly not popular. I had a couple of friends, but most of the other students were everything from thoughtless to snide to hateful to me. For whatever reason, I was deemed "not worthy." It made me want to do anything that would mean not going, not getting involved - I wished school would just go away.

Here's the thing - although I had a great relationship with my parents, I never told them about that. I knew, even at that age, that because they weren't there everyday with those other peers, that they wouldn't understand the complicated social dynamic. Talking about it would have caused unhelpful sorrow and anger with my mom and created more strain.

Also, I have a stepdaughter. When she was your daughter's age her mother spent a lot of time in the principal's office trying with every good mother's intent to address conflicts our girl was having in school. However, in some ways it backfired. After my stepdaughter was moved to another school, it came out that she was being picked on by her previous classmates "because your mom will just come in and complain to the principal." That's always been a lesson to me with my younger kids - it's such a fine line to know how far to push at school. Maintaining good personal relationships with their teachers early on has helped a lot there.

Your kids love you and you obviously have a close relationship with your daughter, but children, especially girls, dont' tell their parents everything. SOMETHING about that school seems to be making her hate it. Counseling could help a lot, and consider alternatives (although if you struggle helping your kids now with homework, you may want to re-think homeschooling).

By the way, after I made it through all those years of school with a whole bunch of people who didn't like me and made everything a struggle (same crowd in high school), college turned out to be my place! I was a fantastic student who graduated with honors and went on to a fabulous public career - in exactly what I'd chosen to do when I was 12.

Remind her that there's always something great waiting for her beyond all this. I wish my mom could have known to say that to me.

Good luck!

C.,

Sometimes smart kids with mild learing and organizational issues act this way. If it is more acceptable to her to be "bad" on purpose than it is to be "dumb" then she will actively avoid the areas where she feels inadeqate and confused. Being smart actually keeps them from being recognized, teachers and parents see them as bright enough to do most academic activities, ao they assume that they can do everything well always. as the demands of school get more intense, usually right around middle school or just before, they start to "choose" to be lazy, angry, manipulative, etc.

You might be right, she could just be acting out because she does not care, but my money is always going to bet the other way, I would not just seek out counseling, I would have a full psycho-educational evaluation along with intense individual and family counseling.

You should not abandon good dicipline in the mean time, and a good "tolken econemy" where she earns everything she likes by doing the very specific behaviors you want is a good way to start. Take EVERYTHING away, and give her a chart with the behaviors you want *the ones you can measure and she cannot argue with) and then give her poker chips to buy phone time, tv time, music time, etc. There is a device sold online called a Time Machine, on the ADHD Wearhouse, you connect it to any electronic device and insert a coin for 30 minutes of play or use. I highly recomend this for tolken econemies.

Good luck to you, call your pediatrician for a referral to a board certified child psychiatrist, and ask for a psycho educational evaluation.

M.

Depression in children can manifest differently than in adults. Find a therapist or psychiatrist who specializes in pre-teens and children. To say that she will just outgrow it isn't good enough. And why medicate, when it doesn't sound like that is necessarily the problem. Do you recall exactly when her behavior changed and was there anything that may have occured that you don't know about? Don't stop looking for the cause, so that you can find the right treatment for the effect.